Skeetendo

’Cause all games were better on the GBC

You are not logged in.

#1 2016-11-17 14:19:06

Rangi
Member
Registered: 2016-05-09
Post 335/870

What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

The GSC game cartridges contained a Memory Bank Controller chip, the MBC3, which (a) allowed the ROM to be 2MB large instead of 32KB, and (b) allowed the use of a real-time clock. A ROM hack could be designed to use the MBC5, which allows for an 8MB ROM, but no real-time clock.

So I'm just wondering, would anyone even miss the RTC? Imagine if in-game time only progressed while you were playing, but did so faster than in real life. So one in-game day could be, say, four hours (or more? less?). This would also make it easier to implement a calendar with seasons. On the other hand, you wouln't be able to set the game down and come back tomorrow with all the daily events reset (haircuts, Berry trees, Kurt making Apricorn Balls, etc)—you'd have to actually play for a full in-game day. Thoughts?


Pokémon Polished Crystal (GitHub) — version 2.2.0 released
Pokémon Red★ and Blue★: Space World Edition (GitHub) — updated August 19!
Polished Map: pokered+pokecrystal map, tileset, and palette editor — version 3.5.1 released!

Offline

#2 2016-11-17 16:51:04

Mmmmmm
Member
From: West Virginia
Registered: 2015-05-17
Post 170/261

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

I would definitely miss the RTC, it's one of the things that makes Gen 2 special compared to 3, but you could also definitely do some amazing things with 8MB (would the RAM also be quadrupled?), and an innovative enough hack could certainly do things much better than the RTC.

If you were worried about daily events, you could do like what Harvest Moon has (or what it had in the single Harvest Moon game I've ever played), where you can sleep in your bed and move the time forward that way via setting an alarm clock for when you wake up. Players would have to use self-control to not abuse this for infinite daily events, but they could always just edit their saves directly to get whatever they want so I think there's already an unspoken agreement not to do that between the author of a hack and the player.

Offline

#3 2016-11-17 17:09:42

Rangi
Member
Registered: 2016-05-09
Post 336/870

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

It's an idea that I'm toying with for Polished Crystal 4.0, if there would be sufficient use of the extra space. I think there could be: expand the data structures to allow for >255 Pokémon, moves, and items; add Rock Climb and Dive areas, some accessible only in certain seasons; make non-native Pokémon seasonal; special Halloween and Christmas events... Not all emulators properly support the clock any, so I wasn't sure how many ROM hack players even notice it.

Sleeping in bed to advance the day is a good idea, thanks.

Last edited by Rangi (2016-11-17 17:10:30)


Pokémon Polished Crystal (GitHub) — version 2.2.0 released
Pokémon Red★ and Blue★: Space World Edition (GitHub) — updated August 19!
Polished Map: pokered+pokecrystal map, tileset, and palette editor — version 3.5.1 released!

Offline

#4 2016-11-17 17:54:50

Ammako
Member
Registered: 2016-03-06
Post 54/158

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

Mmmmmm wrote:

Players would have to use self-control to not abuse this for infinite daily events, but they could always just edit their saves directly to get whatever they want so I think there's already an unspoken agreement not to do that between the author of a hack and the player.

I don't know if it's that simple. There aren't really any save editors that support rom hacks (especially if they change a lot of the save file structure), and there's a difference between straight out cheating via save editing and using a feature given to you by the game. To someone who doesn't want to cheat, I don't see why they'd have a problem with doing the latter. After all, if it's an official feature given to you by the games' devs, why should it be regarded as cheating?

If the player can just sleep to advance the day over and over, then daily events should be balanced with that in mind.
Some restrictions could also be added; for example, you could be required to wait a certain amount of time in in-game time before you were allowed to sleep. What if you could only sleep during night time?
You wouldn't be able to just advance days over and over since it would be day time in the morning when your character woke up, but you would have the option to skip nights if you wanted in-game time to advance quicker.

Last edited by Ammako (2016-11-17 17:55:50)

Offline

#5 2016-11-17 18:28:38

Mmmmmm
Member
From: West Virginia
Registered: 2015-05-17
Post 171/261

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

Having restrictions on daily events does seem like a good idea (perhaps decouple them from the time of day entirely, and have things such as berry growth and Kurt's ball making progress via steps; that may greatly increase the amount of RAM it would take, though, since each tree would have its own counter that needs to be incremented each step; even if you give it cycles and only change the counter after so many steps like how eggs work, and give each tree 15 or less cycles, that's still half a byte of RAM for each individual berry tree), but I do think you should be able to make time go forward during the day for the sake of Pokémon that can only be caught, or can only evolve, during night.

Offline

#6 2016-11-17 18:37:43

Rangi
Member
Registered: 2016-05-09
Post 337/870

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

Sleeping over and over again is like Wonder Trading over and over again, or overleveling to make battles easier: it doesn't look like fun, but if you want to do it for the sake of getting more stuff, I don't care enough to stop you.


Pokémon Polished Crystal (GitHub) — version 2.2.0 released
Pokémon Red★ and Blue★: Space World Edition (GitHub) — updated August 19!
Polished Map: pokered+pokecrystal map, tileset, and palette editor — version 3.5.1 released!

Offline

#7 2016-11-17 19:01:22

FIQ
Member
Registered: 2016-09-17
Post 27/79

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

^ You could also limit it so that you have to wait at least 1h or 30min+game reset (real minutes, assuming you play in normal speed) before sleeping again if you really wanted to.

EDIT: MBC5 also doubles SRAM I think, allowing you to have more boxes to actually store the added mons.

Last edited by FIQ (2016-11-17 19:04:48)

Offline

#8 2016-11-17 20:30:18

Faiyz
Member
Registered: 2016-09-01
Post 32/34

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

FIQ wrote:

You could also limit it so that you have to wait at least 1h or 30min+game reset (real minutes, assuming you play in normal speed) before sleeping again if you really wanted to.

Finally! Someone brought this up.

I have an idea similar to that which uses SRAM to read in-game time so that daily events run on the regular timer, rather than the RTC itself. Normally, I was thinking that every "minute" equates to 90 frames (36 minutes per in-game day), which is one and a half seconds normally as a default option, but these could be adjustable. Currently, I don't know how to insert my timechoice idea into vanilla Crystal, or the Patched Crystal that UberMedic is doing. That'd mean having to disable RTC (don't know how that could happen without me breaking something) and hook it to a special timer that only reads the data via SRAM.

Saving first should be mandatory for things like the Bug Catching contest in order to prevent abuse by soft-resetting, like what Emerald does. Once soft-resetting happens, the game should already flag the contest as "completed with a loss" and won't let you enter until the next valid day. Furthermore, it can also be used in the vanilla Trainer House, or a custom post-game Trainer House variant. To expand on this concept, it can be used in a Battle Factory mod and/or the Battle Tower. I hope you like my input, since I had it lingering in my head for a while. Finally, my idea has gotten out into the wild. Hope you like it.

Oh yeah, and I'm also against 8MB ROM's since the technology to replicate it is only used in Japan. It'll also break stuff, unfortunately, so use 4MB, like Shantae did.

Last edited by Faiyz (2016-11-17 23:13:30)

Offline

#9 2016-11-17 22:56:29

Ammako
Member
Registered: 2016-03-06
Post 55/158

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

Mmmmmm wrote:

but I do think you should be able to make time go forward during the day for the sake of Pokémon that can only be caught, or can only evolve, during night.

Yeah that's true. Could have something similar to what Elder Scrolls has, and add an option in the menu to wait a certain amount of hours, regardless of time of day. :p
If being able to do it over and over without limits becomes a problem then a limit to how often you can do it can be implemented, but I suppose it's not really necessary.

Last edited by Ammako (2016-11-17 22:56:47)

Offline

#10 2016-11-17 23:09:53

Rangi
Member
Registered: 2016-05-09
Post 340/870

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

Oh yeah, and I'm also against 8MB roms since the technology to replicate it is only used in Japan. It'll also break stuff, unfortunately, so use 4MB, like Shantae did.

Do you know which emulators aren't compatible with 8MB ROMs? (That much space probably isn't necessary anyway, even for a complete Pokédex, but I'm curious.)

Last edited by Rangi (2016-11-17 23:10:33)


Pokémon Polished Crystal (GitHub) — version 2.2.0 released
Pokémon Red★ and Blue★: Space World Edition (GitHub) — updated August 19!
Polished Map: pokered+pokecrystal map, tileset, and palette editor — version 3.5.1 released!

Offline

#11 2016-11-17 23:20:54

Faiyz
Member
Registered: 2016-09-01
Post 33/34

Re: What if GSC didn't have a real-time clock?

Rangi wrote:

Do you know which emulators aren't compatible with 8MB ROMs? (That much space probably isn't necessary anyway, even for a complete Pokédex, but I'm curious.)

I'm usually thinking about the preliminary emulators as well as some instances of mobile phone applications not recognizing or running it properly. From an American standpoint, 4MB or 32Mbit is the maximum one can go. Hardware-wise, the GB USB Smart Card cannot run games above 4MB due to the cartridge relying mainly on hardware bankswitching so EMS cart users will be out of luck at that point. Homemade Flash Cartridges will also have trouble with this since a standard MBC5 only reads 4MB normally. Besides, 2,048 kilobytes is more than enough space to work with, and will benefit both emulation as well as hardware aficionados who'd rather play their games on a real GBC with real cartridges, like I sometimes do.

Last edited by Faiyz (2016-11-17 23:21:06)

Offline

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB