Skeetendo

’Cause all games were better on the GBC

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#1 2013-01-04 17:37:46

Miksy91
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Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 1,418/2,339

Idea of a rom base

This would especially help out beginners but also more advanced hackers who aren't that familiar with assembly yet.
I was thinking, would it be a good idea to create an ips-file used to modify parts of the coding so that you wouldn't have to worry about rom bank limitations related to certain things? Basically, stuff such as trainer data, evolution and moveset tables, picture numbers of pokemon standing sprites, ..., and whatever comes to your mind could be moved to empty rom banks. Something should especially be done with trainer and evolution- and moveset datas, I don't think I was the only one having trouble with their space limitations.

Last edited by Miksy91 (2013-01-04 17:38:04)

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#2 2013-01-04 20:19:38

Mateo
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From: The Sims 4
Registered: 2009-11-25
Post 2,133/3,580

Re: Idea of a rom base

I support this idea.

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#3 2013-01-04 20:25:46

comet
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Registered: 2012-04-09
Post 83/679

Re: Idea of a rom base

I don't.

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#4 2013-01-05 06:11:41

Miksy91
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Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 1,421/2,339

Re: Idea of a rom base

comet wrote:

I don't.

Why not? Why does everything have to be as complicated as possible?
It's still not like you'd be able to do anything without proper understanding of several structures, repointing and things such as that.

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#5 2013-01-05 06:23:27

koolboyman
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Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 136/203

Re: Idea of a rom base

Sounds like a good idea.  It could also be used to organize some data before the hacking begins.

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#6 2013-01-05 06:52:19

emaj30
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From: Indigo Plateau
Registered: 2012-12-29
Post 79/463
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Re: Idea of a rom base

sounds great to me,but will it be confuses the usual way of looking up for data inside the rom?

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#7 2013-01-05 07:15:01

comet
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Registered: 2012-04-09
Post 84/679

Re: Idea of a rom base

Miksy91 wrote:
comet wrote:

I don't.

Why not? Why does everything have to be as complicated as possible?

I don't know. Why do you keep using hex editors and fragmenting knowledge bases?

By all means go ahead and finish your hex-edited hacks but don't carry on like it's a good idea for "more experienced hackers who don't know asm" (what?)

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#8 2013-01-05 07:24:42

emaj30
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From: Indigo Plateau
Registered: 2012-12-29
Post 81/463
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Re: Idea of a rom base

comet wrote:
Miksy91 wrote:
comet wrote:

I don't.

Why not? Why does everything have to be as complicated as possible?

I don't know. Why do you keep using hex editors and fragmenting knowledge bases?

By all means go ahead and finish your hex-edited hacks but don't carry on like it's a good idea for "more experienced hackers who don't know asm" (what?)

why you're so against with the idea?

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#9 2013-01-05 07:41:16

comet
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Registered: 2012-04-09
Post 86/679

Re: Idea of a rom base

There's a much better place to direct effort: pokecrystal

comet wrote:
emaj30 wrote:

but do you have an idea why there's is no tool for directly making an asm inside the rom,i mean like the other tools specifically made for,example,sprite inserting or scripting,or i might have been mistaken?

Code isn't compressed (like graphics) or obtuse (like script macros). An instruction is one byte followed by any parameters it could have.

Of course reading assembly in a hex editor is just plain wrong. There is a Crystal disassembly on GitHub that compiles assembly written in plaintext into a new rom. It's not complete yet, but since it's a disassembly of the whole rom you can do anything with it that you could with an assembled rom (and much more). It's basically a recreation of the source code.

You don't have to pore over a hex editor or use a foreign tool you found in a link that could corrupt your rom. Making a change is as easy as editing a text file or directly editing the graphics without worrying about the compression.

Instead of wondering what something does, you can program your own tools easily with Python. There are thousands of people who can help you out with programming things instead of just asking people on here or pokecommunity and waiting days for a (poor) response. So when there is something that you don't know, you can find out how to do it by yourself (this is great, because you don't have to rely on other people who probably aren't as invested as you), and then do it.

Most of all you can make some of the big changes you were talking about that are prohibitive in a hex editor.

Join the #skeetendo chat if you want to know more.

Last edited by comet (2013-01-05 07:46:02)

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#10 2013-01-05 07:43:18

emaj30
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From: Indigo Plateau
Registered: 2012-12-29
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Re: Idea of a rom base

i see,so you're telling me its not a problem to have the original limits of the rom since you can recreate the game the way that you want to?am i right?

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#11 2013-01-05 07:43:38

comet
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Registered: 2012-04-09
Post 87/679

Re: Idea of a rom base

Exactly!

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#12 2013-01-05 08:25:32

emaj30
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From: Indigo Plateau
Registered: 2012-12-29
Post 84/463
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Re: Idea of a rom base

@comet
you a have good and reasonable point too...

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#13 2013-01-05 09:46:49

Mateo
Member
From: The Sims 4
Registered: 2009-11-25
Post 2,144/3,580

Re: Idea of a rom base

I'll go ahead and say this, and you can take from it what you will.


- Not everyone who has the creativity to design a Pokemon game has the mindset to learn how to program (or even fool with editing and recompiling a disassembly).

- Not everyone who has the mindset to program has the creativity to design a Pokemon game.


When Miksy said "more experienced hackers who don't know asm", I'm fairly certain he was talking about people who have the talent to come up with a hack design, and can work user-friendly tools, but aren't able to re-code a routine to do something.

Just because you see assembly language in a text file doesn't mean its going to make any more sense to you. You could open a hex editor and see:

21 00 40 CD F0 41 C9

or, you could look in a text file and see:

ld hl, $0040
call $F041
ret

and it still wouldn't mean a bloody thing to you if you didn't understand assembly. Even if it was commented, like:

ld hl, $0040 ' Loads the pointer to this comment
call $F041 ' calls the routine to make this point
ret ' go back to executing the code you came from

that still doesn't mean it will mean anything to you if you don't have the mindset to wrap your head around programming. (Also, I may or may not have made up the proper hex -> english conversion right there, it doesn't matter). Yes, that is what a community is there for, to teach people and to help people. And if they want to learn it, that is great. But some people have absolutely no desire to learn assembly, but are still creative enough to come up with a fun concept for a game that is enjoyable to play. For example, Freako and Pokemon Bronze, or those guys from /vp/ making the Black and White devamp.

Now I will admit, yes, editing it in a disassembly is more efficient if you want to make large scale changes, especially to code. But not everyone has the mindset to do all of that. It's not a matter of being "smart" or "dumb" either. You have to remember that:

1) This is a hobby. We do it for fun, and as such -
2) Different people enjoy different aspects of the process. Some of us enjoy programming, to others that thought is a total nightmare.
3) You can have a fun Pokemon game without modifying the engine at all. After all, we enjoyed the original gameplay, having the same mechanics with a new story is where this all started anyway. We as gamers wanted new adventures.



I've noticed more and more lately that there are two camps developing on this forum.
1) People who hack the games, and may or may not want to learn about how they work while creating new games.
2) People who mainly care about disassembling the game engine, and don't really plan to do anything with it once they do.

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#14 2013-01-05 09:50:03

RED
Member
From: Japan
Registered: 2012-09-03
Post 80/521

Re: Idea of a rom base

What about changing the pallete bank? (02)


わたし の なまえ わ レン レン  でづ

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#15 2013-01-05 10:53:00

emaj30
Member
From: Indigo Plateau
Registered: 2012-12-29
Post 85/463
Website

Re: Idea of a rom base

@mateo
i do feel your deep sense of sincerity or something like that about hacking these games,i appreciate how you treat hacking a way of life,maybe,not just a way of changing the game,maybe its all up to us how we should use miksy's idea if it happen to materialize,if anyone just dont want the way it should,just let them do what they want,in that case no different and contrasting ideology rises here,we're all here coz of the same thing,we all love pokemon and everyone just here want to reinvent it the way we want it to?am i right,i'm not on a specefic side here,i think it wont matter how me modify or hack the game by any means,it matters how we put our efforts and ideas on the game,the only product of it will be the manipulations we've done on the game and how we want it to be played by each of us here,and you're right sir,it doesnt matter how smart or dumb someone is,the fact that if we're interested,we will do something to learn and apply it,though there are others who just dont want to know certain part of hacking or two,and we dont have anything to do with it,all we can do is to respect it,no offense for anyone else here,i just want to say my side...peace for everybody:-)

Last edited by emaj30 (2013-01-05 11:42:06)

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#16 2013-01-05 12:22:08

Sawakita
Administrator
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 354/365

Re: Idea of a rom base

Mateo wrote:

Now I will admit, yes, editing it in a disassembly is more efficient if you want to make large scale changes, especially to code. But not everyone has the mindset to do all of that. It's not a matter of being "smart" or "dumb" either.

I think it's a matter of care. Clearly some people couldn't care less about who will come an year from now looking for the same info they're up to. But the "valuable" info we have today is a result of some people's effort to give an understandable format to their findings.

Mateo wrote:

I've noticed more and more lately that there are two camps developing on this forum.
1) People who hack the games, and may or may not want to learn about how they work while creating new games.
2) People who mainly care about disassembling the game engine, and don't really plan to do anything with it once they do.

Don't get me wrong but, in my opinion, a large part of the former group does only rely on the latter for several modifications on their hacks (Tauwasser & Co.'s scripting compendium comes to mind).

The key point, in my opinion, is that if those people who produced a valuable outcome (like docs and guides) didn't have the care to put the info together in a clear and comprehensive form, a lot of people (and I'm not talking of any specific user) would be basically clueless and could not accomplish anything.

Also, I find that the whole «disassemblies are for UNIX hackers, hex editing has less overhead» is just a result of a mistaken idea, heritage of the long history of hex editing users (compared to the small presence of disassembly users). Think about those detailed hex editing tutorials that tell you how to implement some edit in the ROM which basically guide the clueless user through an array of steps that god-only-knows what they do. If you had the same thing for disassembly (like, «go under label MapPalletTownHeader:", do this, do that, etc.») you would realize how simple some editings are to accomplish with a disassemnly than they seem through hex editing.
I don't think that has anything to do with code: a great part of the disassembly power doesn't resides in the "mnemonic-ized" ASM, but in the human-readable abstraction given to data-structure and in the flexibility of data size and location.

Sure, if you just have to do something simple, the hex editing way is probably faster: to change the sprite displayed on the intro you can hack away just changing one byte (although you'd have to look up the numerical value of that sprite ID, while in a disassembly you would just replace the name of the sprite; again, human-readability ;).

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#17 2013-01-05 18:19:11

comet
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Registered: 2012-04-09
Post 88/679

Re: Idea of a rom base

Mateo: You've been lied to. Programming doesn't take some sort of innate talent or thought process and vice versa. You've built up a wall and you can't get past the idea that it's too hard for you. It's not. It's not cool to make it out to be a battle between 'glorious creativity' and 'savant mindset'. You're on the defensive but you don't hesitate to take cheap shots.

ld hl, $0040 ' Loads the pointer to this comment
call $F041 ' calls the routine to make this point
ret ' go back to executing the code you came from

If you're reading comments that poor, no wonder you can't figure it out. I can't even read it.

Here's what an equivalent routine would look like in pokecrystal:

GetPartyMon:
; return partymon struct at hl

; which partymon?
    ld a, [CurPartyMon]

; each partymon starts right after the last, so we can just
; add the length until we get to the one we want

    ld bc,  PartyMon2 - PartyMon1 ; size of a pokemon in your party
    call AddNTimes
    ld hl, PartyMons
    add hl, bc

; we can use hl as PartyMonX now
    ret

Maybe you can't follow that yet. It just means that you haven't cared to look into it. It's one thing to not like it but don't pretend it's beyond your ability. Don't trick other people into thinking they can't do something because you don't want to.

Mateo wrote:

Now I will admit, yes, editing it in a disassembly is more efficient if you want to make large scale changes

It's 'more efficient' and a million times easier to make tiny ones too. You don't have to worry about what address something is at and you don't have to double-check what byte you're on in a hex editor. Everything is labeled.

Say you want to change the music for Olivine City. Instead of looking up the address for Olivine City's map header, you Ctrl-F "OlivineCity" and the map header is the first result. Once you're there, you don't have to look up what the header format is because it's explained to you right there.

What about graphics? Instead of fiddling with AGIXP you can just edit the graphics and they'll take. Scripts are laid out and commented for you. You can move them round at will. The list goes on.

Mateo wrote:

I've noticed more and more lately that there are two camps developing on this forum.
1) People who hack the games, and may or may not want to learn about how they work while creating new games.
2) People who mainly care about disassembling the game engine, and don't really plan to do anything with it once they do.

Please. How would you know what anyone's plans are? Are you really trying to turn people against each other?

Mateo wrote:

You can have a fun Pokemon game without modifying the engine at all. After all, we enjoyed the original gameplay, having the same mechanics with a new story is where this all started anyway. We as gamers wanted new adventures.

Why wouldn't you want to modify the engine? You say you're the creative ones with the skills to design a game. How come engine changes fall outside of that? Where is the game design?

Do you realize that there are literally 30 million people who used to like Pokemon and now don't? What about them? They said they didn't want 'the same mechanics with a new story' when they stopped playing. Who decides what's fun for them?

Have you ever wondered why the hacking community is so small?

Last edited by comet (2013-01-05 18:31:46)

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#18 2013-01-05 18:54:45

Mateo
Member
From: The Sims 4
Registered: 2009-11-25
Post 2,145/3,580

Re: Idea of a rom base

I'm not going to take the time to quote and point out everywhere that you completely missed my points individually right now, because I am on my phone instead of a computer. But for now I'll say this: the disassembly could be the most efficient way of doing anything in the world, and I still want nothing to do with it. Not because I'm "scared" or "think its too hard" as you seem to think, but because of a reason that has escaped you. I have no use for kanzure, and the fact that he thinks this forum is "useless" because "nobody here is a programmer". I also cannot in good conscience tell anyone to go to the irc channel, when the few times I went there, the conversation was either irrelevant political bs or kanzure telling me quite literally to "fuck off and die". So sure, you guys can work on your precious disassembly all you want to. You can change the name of this website to "godhateshexeditors.com" and picket PokeCommunity for all I care. But your arrogance and elitism are what are separating the community, not the fact that I said "people like different things" and "not everyone enjoys the same aspects of hacking." You seem to think I was referring to myself personally, even though I said specifically that I was referring to people who said themselves that they didn't want to modify the engine or learn assembly, they just wanted to make a pokemon game. And I was trying to say that those people have as much right to do it as people who know how to program. If you remember, this is a thread about Miksy creating a rombase to help people who aren't skilled at assembly programming to make life easier. I was explaining why I agree with his premise, in response to you disagreeing with it.

EDIT: Also, IIMarckus, I'm stepping down as an Administrator. I can't remove the privilege from my own account it seems, but if you wouldn't mind doing it for me, I would appreciate it.

Last edited by Mateo (2013-01-05 19:01:04)

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#19 2013-01-05 19:11:30

Cartmic
Member
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 144/156

Re: Idea of a rom base

Mateo wrote:

I'm not going to take the time to quote and point out everywhere that you completely missed my points individually right now, because I am on my phone instead of a computer. But for now I'll say this: the disassembly could be the most efficient way of doing anything in the world, and I still want nothing to do with it. Not because I'm "scared" or "think its too hard" as you seem to think, but because of a reason that has escaped you. I have no use for kanzure, and the fact that he thinks this forum is "useless" because "nobody here is a programmer". I also cannot in good conscience tell anyone to go to the irc channel, when the few times I went there, the conversation was either irrelevant political bs or kanzure telling me quite literally to "fuck off and die". So sure, you guys can work on your precious disassembly all you want to. You can change the name of this website to "godhateshexeditors.com" and picket PokeCommunity for all I care. But your arrogance and elitism are what are separating the community, not the fact that I said "people like different things" and "not everyone enjoys the same aspects of hacking." You seem to think I was referring to myself personally, even though I said specifically that I was referring to people who said themselves that they didn't want to modify the engine or learn assembly, they just wanted to make a pokemon game. And I was trying to say that those people have as much right to do it as people who know how to program. If you remember, this is a thread about Miksy creating a rombase to help people who aren't skilled at assembly programming to make life easier. I was explaining why I agree with his premise, in response to you disagreeing with it.

EDIT: Also, IIMarckus, I'm stepping down as an Administrator. I can't remove the privilege from my own account it seems, but if you wouldn't mind doing it for me, I would appreciate it.

Likewise, I too am stepping down.

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#20 2013-01-05 19:55:26

Zapdos
Member
From: Unknown Dungeon
Registered: 2012-07-10
Post 98/114

Re: Idea of a rom base

Why? Youse are awesome admins :(


Looks like hes been....
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
Disarmed!!!
YEEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!

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#21 2013-01-05 22:31:59

585/703

Re: Idea of a rom base

Mateo wrote:

I'm not going to take the time to quote and point out everywhere that you completely missed my points individually right now, because I am on my phone instead of a computer. But for now I'll say this: the disassembly could be the most efficient way of doing anything in the world, and I still want nothing to do with it. Not because I'm "scared" or "think its too hard" as you seem to think, but because of a reason that has escaped you. I have no use for kanzure, and the fact that he thinks this forum is "useless" because "nobody here is a programmer". I also cannot in good conscience tell anyone to go to the irc channel, when the few times I went there, the conversation was either irrelevant political bs or kanzure telling me quite literally to "fuck off and die". So sure, you guys can work on your precious disassembly all you want to. You can change the name of this website to "godhateshexeditors.com" and picket PokeCommunity for all I care. But your arrogance and elitism are what are separating the community, not the fact that I said "people like different things" and "not everyone enjoys the same aspects of hacking." You seem to think I was referring to myself personally, even though I said specifically that I was referring to people who said themselves that they didn't want to modify the engine or learn assembly, they just wanted to make a pokemon game. And I was trying to say that those people have as much right to do it as people who know how to program. If you remember, this is a thread about Miksy creating a rombase to help people who aren't skilled at assembly programming to make life easier. I was explaining why I agree with his premise, in response to you disagreeing with it.

EDIT: Also, IIMarckus, I'm stepping down as an Administrator. I can't remove the privilege from my own account it seems, but if you wouldn't mind doing it for me, I would appreciate it.

If you say so. But you’re overreacting.

#22 2013-01-05 22:47:45

meanmrmustad
Member
Registered: 2013-01-02
Post 30/38

Re: Idea of a rom base

I would rather play a good hack made with tools and hex editing using a tutorial than a bad tech demo.

Compare my crappy hacks to CBMs

I just changed as much stuff as I could just to shoq off, but the hacks I've made have always been short and boring well because I don't have any good ideas.

And look at CBM, he finished a RB hack that was fun to play, and prism seems even more so.

But like mateo said it's a hobby and a forum who cares?

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#23 2013-01-05 23:36:40

emaj30
Member
From: Indigo Plateau
Registered: 2012-12-29
Post 100/463
Website

Re: Idea of a rom base

hey hey,hot heads?you guys have different understandings and interests,and a decent person i should say,we all know it,we're not here to showcase whatever things someone are lacking of,why dont tell other people what your strong at and share it to them?the fact that we wont mind what you lack of,instead we want what your knowledge is up to with,it make sense having a discussion of some sort tackling about making hacking easy,but i think pinching others nose out of that idea just to show ones weakness is not this forum want,right?i may not be here for so long,infact i've been here for only a week but i do care for this forum,instead of telling everyboy who's dumb or not,noob or not,good or not,interested or not,why not act as a team?with different knowledge but with only one aim,to help others and show hacking really is,it wont matter if that would be done by means of hex,asm and the like,it counts whatever you teach to someone else,right?
@comet
hey bro,as for me,you're too rough for this,i do understand your very own point but why not share it to everybody?make your own asm guide like tauwasser and guigue did,if thats what can you call it,so you can express yourself very clearly,and show whats asm,as an easy task to deal with,if you really wish to tell to us thats not too hard to learn to,and there you can have the right to say its really a walk in the park as you can see,not a big rock to bang with,being rude to others just to show your point of view isn't a very good idea for me though,
@mateo and probably cartmic
hey guys,whats up with stepping down?you guys are awesome admins i should say,whats the matter,did comet burst your bubbles?to sir mateo,you did gave your point in a very clear manner,so whats wrong with that?i just dont know if comet really meant to say something like you lied but i do believe you're just making yourself relevant to this topic,just keep at it,i do really respect all of you guys and i hope this thing will be in good shape as it were before,you two have a totally different thing to say bout hacking but it doesnt mean to collide ideas and express it in a explicitly rude manner,i should say,(especially to comet,please man,dont be so rough,you can say you have a different point of view but be a little nice)we're all part of this small but helpful community,remember?


p.s.
i might be sounding as the good guy here,i'm not,but i just want to have a good atmosphere in here,thats it and enough is enough,everyone said their side here,for me thats more than enough instead of ramming more ideas towards each other,its really obnoxious to hear,so knock it off...

Last edited by emaj30 (2013-01-05 23:51:02)

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#24 2013-01-05 23:39:28

meanmrmustad
Member
Registered: 2013-01-02
Post 33/38

Re: Idea of a rom base

emaj30 wrote:

hey hey,hot heads?you guys have different understandings and interests,we all know it,we're not here to showcase whatever things someone are lacking of,why dont tell other people what your strong at and share it to them?the fact that we wont mind what you lack of,instead we want what your knowledge is up to with,it make sense having a discussion of some sort tackling about making hacking easy,but i think pinching others nose out of that idea just to show ones weakness is not this forum want,right?i may not be here for so long,infact i've been here for only a week but i do care for this forum,instead of telling everyboy who's dumb or not,noob or not,good or not,interested or not,why not act as a team?with different knowledge but with only one aim,to help others and show hacking really is,it wont matter if that would be done by means of hex,asm and the like,i counts whatever you teach to someone else,right?
@comet
hey bro,as for me,you're too rough for this,i do understand your very own point but why not share it to everybody?make your own asm guide like tauwasser and guigue did,if thats what can you call it,and show whats asm,as an easy task to deal with,if you really wish to tell to us thats not too hard to learn to,and there you can have the right to say its really a walk in the park as you can see,not a big rock to bang with,being rude to others just to show your point of view isn't a very good idea for me though,
@mateo and probably cartmic
hey guys,whats up with stepping down?you guys are awesome admins i should say,whats the matter,did comet burst your bubbles?to sir mateo,you did gave your point in a very clear manner,so whats wrong with that?i just dont know if comet really meant to say something like you lied but i do believe you're just making yourself relevant to this topic,just keep at it,i do really respect all of you guys and i hope this thing will be in good shape as it were before,you two have a totally different thing to say bout hacking but it doesnt mean to collide ideas and express it in a explicitly rude manner,i should say,especially to comet,please man,dont be so rough,we're all part of this small but helpful community,remember?


p.s.
i might be sounding as the good guy here,i'm not,but i just want to have a good atmosphere here,thats it and enough is enough,everyone said their side here,for me thats more than enough instead of ramming more ideas towards each other,its really obnoxious to hear,


bloody hell work on your formatting, its a pain to read what you write!

Use paraghrapsh and whatnot.

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#25 2013-01-05 23:44:04

586/703

Re: Idea of a rom base

meanmrmustad wrote:
emaj30 wrote:

hey hey,hot heads?you guys have different understandings and interests,we all know it,we're not here to showcase whatever things someone are lacking of,why dont tell other people what your strong at and share it to them?the fact that we wont mind what you lack of,instead we want what your knowledge is up to with,it make sense having a discussion of some sort tackling about making hacking easy,but i think pinching others nose out of that idea just to show ones weakness is not this forum want,right?i may not be here for so long,infact i've been here for only a week but i do care for this forum,instead of telling everyboy who's dumb or not,noob or not,good or not,interested or not,why not act as a team?with different knowledge but with only one aim,to help others and show hacking really is,it wont matter if that would be done by means of hex,asm and the like,i counts whatever you teach to someone else,right?
@comet
hey bro,as for me,you're too rough for this,i do understand your very own point but why not share it to everybody?make your own asm guide like tauwasser and guigue did,if thats what can you call it,and show whats asm,as an easy task to deal with,if you really wish to tell to us thats not too hard to learn to,and there you can have the right to say its really a walk in the park as you can see,not a big rock to bang with,being rude to others just to show your point of view isn't a very good idea for me though,
@mateo and probably cartmic
hey guys,whats up with stepping down?you guys are awesome admins i should say,whats the matter,did comet burst your bubbles?to sir mateo,you did gave your point in a very clear manner,so whats wrong with that?i just dont know if comet really meant to say something like you lied but i do believe you're just making yourself relevant to this topic,just keep at it,i do really respect all of you guys and i hope this thing will be in good shape as it were before,you two have a totally different thing to say bout hacking but it doesnt mean to collide ideas and express it in a explicitly rude manner,i should say,especially to comet,please man,dont be so rough,we're all part of this small but helpful community,remember?


p.s.
i might be sounding as the good guy here,i'm not,but i just want to have a good atmosphere here,thats it and enough is enough,everyone said their side here,for me thats more than enough instead of ramming more ideas towards each other,its really obnoxious to hear,


bloody hell work on your formatting, its a pain to read what you write!

Use paraghrapsh and whatnot.

His formatting needs work but IMO his posts have been the best in the thread.

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