Skeetendo

’Cause all games were better on the GBC

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#51 2013-12-11 20:24:14

Miksy91
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Registered: 2010-10-16
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

I could give you more feedback since I even run into a few small bugs that you might want to fix. But anyway, onto the more important things:

I think this hack is too hard to be enjoyable. It's not that I couldn't beat every enemy that I run into but I have to do lots of bush grinding at great speeds to progress forward (especially since I begun with Chikorita, bad call I guess). Active Battle System somewhat works as an add-on but when you can hardly keep up with the trainers, having it only makes it a pain to go on.

I'm not sure if you have the will to do anything about it, but I would personally like to see a less griding-required game.

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#52 2013-12-11 20:32:40

Pokemon_Master
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Miksy91 wrote:

I could give you more feedback since I even run into a few small bugs that you might want to fix. But anyway, onto the more important things:

I think this hack is too hard to be enjoyable. It's not that I couldn't beat every enemy that I run into but I have to do lots of bush grinding at great speeds to progress forward (especially since I begun with Chikorita, bad call I guess). Active Battle System somewhat works as an add-on but when you can hardly keep up with the trainers, having it only makes it a pain to go on.

I'm not sure if you have the will to do anything about it, but I would personally like to see a less griding-required game.

Do you remember that Pokemon Pyrite was Pokemon Crystal Expert? Maybe that's why this game is very difficult. But that's cool.

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#53 2013-12-11 21:18:42

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

I could give you more feedback since I even run into a few small bugs that you might want to fix. But anyway, onto the more important things:
I think this hack is too hard to be enjoyable. It's not that I couldn't beat every enemy that I run into but I have to do lots of bush grinding at great speeds to progress forward (especially since I begun with Chikorita, bad call I guess). Active Battle System somewhat works as an add-on but when you can hardly keep up with the trainers, having it only makes it a pain to go on. I'm not sure if you have the will to do anything about it, but I would personally like to see a less griding-required game.

I see. I honestly thought that the overall difficulty was good and accurate; not as easy as the original GBC games, but not too difficult that it's impossible either. Obviously it wasn't going to be as easy as the originals, but I hoped that it wouldn't have a so high difficulty that could make it unenjoyable. I've played through the hack myself three times with the three starters, and have adjusted the levels of trainers and wild pokemon a few times in the process. I've made a great effort on trying to make everything as balanced as possible, from my point of view. I know of people that have played through the hack and enjoyed the difficulty (in fact, a few people have told me they'd like to nuzlocke it!), but maybe coming from the world of competitive pokemon insetad of from the world of pokemon hacking, it's a different perspective.

Perhaps you are right that it's too difficult for what most people would like, but you know, I like to think that that is what differentiates it from other hacks; that, in my humble opinion, it's very hard but not in a crazy and 'careless' way. In Pokemon Pyrite, you sort of have to find a way with what you have; I really, really didn't like the fact that you could overtrain pokemon to make the game easy, which, at the same time is boring, and that's why I bothered so much about modifying the obedience system. So you aren't supposed to lots of bush grinding, or at least it wasn't my intention. Of course, it's very helpul if you beat the few Pokemon you run into. Ideally, you'd try to find a way and cut your losses with a team that is about the same level (or ~5% below at most) as regular trainers and around 15% below the level of leaders and bosses. And enjoy the challenge of it. That's how I wanted the hack to be, really.

By the way, if you have found some bugs, I'd like to hear about them! (If one is related to the academy guy in violet city that walks over the sage that blocks the gym, someone else has noted it to me, and it's already been fixed, but from your words, it seems you have more than one bug).

Thanks for your opinion Miksy, it's very appreciated coming for you, and thanks for taking your time to test the hack!

Last edited by Crystal_ (2013-12-11 21:19:44)

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#54 2013-12-12 13:47:26

Miksy91
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

It's not that the overall difficulty of this hack is impossible - far from it. I guess it's not even much harder than that of R/S/E. But most people don't like to waste their time grinding when playing a hack - that's hardly the point of it.

I personally like playing hacks when I can simply explore - move on from one area to another without "force-grinding" along the way. This hack does this thing wrong (not like my own hacks would be much better - in fact, the crystal edits I have made aren't any better on grinding aspect).

It's okay that you for example have to do some additional grinding to beat a gym leader, but it gets out of hand when the following area is so different from the previous one that you're punished for not being prepared to face the opponents, or even wild pokemon, there. In my own opinion, I already did lots of grinding to beat Falkner and had a team of 4 or 5 pokemon at "high" levels - only to realize that when I reached the next area, none of these pokemon were significantly better than the ones I ran into in grass. I could have as well trained one or two and then catch a new one here and move forward with there. The problem is that I couldn't expect that to happen - I was thinking the pokemon in the next route will be max lv11 maybe.

I can't speak for everyone when I'm saying this, but most players like playing games to explore, and a too easy game is often better than a too difficult one. If you have checked out Prism, you probably know what I mean. I'd say, it's even way too easy at times, but then again, Koolboyman made it with the right background idea since he has studied game development I think. You should develop games to be beatable. Beatable games are often more fun than ones that are ridiculously difficult.

If I'm right about you, you made this hack for your own fun and wanted it to be challenging. However when other people play it, they're not sure what to expect. One might like the idea of putting a ridiculously difficult enemy somewhere who you can challenge without a warning, but that's really nothing but cruel, and the player won't probably like the idea one bit.

I'm not saying your hack does these things - it's just quite difficult I think. Apart from that, I think (I don't know, I just believe it was this way) that most of the trainers were unavoidable. This also makes the game lose some playability. It's like everybody on the road is waiting for you, and wanting to take you down. As the player, I personally don't like that idea at all. It's one of the minor things that makes this hack a bit annoying to play.
If you for example think about the route between Ilex Forest and Goldenrod City, I think that's an ideal route and how one should be. You don't have to battle most of the trainers if you don't like even though fighting them pays off in terms of experience. But there's a huge difference behind making an NPC unavoidable than letting the player challenge the NPC itself. And beside the trainers, there is avoidable grass as well.

So I'm just saying, not knowing but I think, that most players like playing hacks for exploration, and to see what kind of game the hacker has made out of the original game rather than figting difficult enemies. Though your own hack is VERY different from this specific one in terms of difficulty, you might want to check out this thread where they make jokes of Dark Rising: http://s7.zetaboards.com/Nuzlocke_Forum … 8792665/1/

If this hack was a lot easier though, I would personally find it neat to play. If I do want to continue though, I'll probably just "ram-hack" myself one beast who can take down all the enemies that come into the way. I'm probably even a total exception in this case, since I nowadays don't like playing pokemon games for playing - just seeing and making new things. So it feels like grinding and battling is almost a waste of time if there is nothing special added to them.

Crystal_ wrote:

By the way, if you have found some bugs, I'd like to hear about them! (If one is related to the academy guy in violet city that walks over the sage that blocks the gym, someone else has noted it to me, and it's already been fixed, but from your words, it seems you have more than one bug).

Thanks for your opinion Miksy, it's very appreciated coming for you, and thanks for taking your time to test the hack!

There were three bugs I ran into (before moving towards Azalea Town so I don't know if there are more to come). One was the academy guy walking bug which you mentioned yourself, one was the fact that you can see some of Dark Cave being "missing" when you are in Route 31.

50jo.png

Then there is a VERY small bug in Route 29 which I personally might not bother to fix at all, but it's your choice whether you want to do anything about it or not. It's one of those "person event of another map not being shown when you see that part of that map" problems. So what I'm talking about exactly is this:

ptlt.png

I have just left New Bark Town behind and I "know" that the rival is standing next to the pokemon lab, but he's not seen although he is there. It's not much of a bug in this case especially since one could think that he has walked away and once you approach the town yourself, he has gone back there. Normally, I take these in account myself so that sprites won't appear randomly once you enter a map, or get out of one, but this is an exception of that case. I'm sure it won't bother anyone, but it caught my attention :D

Last edited by Miksy91 (2013-12-12 14:05:45)

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#55 2013-12-12 17:27:16

Crystal_
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Registered: 2012-09-16
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

First of all, got those two bugs fixed with some minor map tweaking. Thanks for pointing the out. The second one perhaps is not strictly a bug, but it didn't make much sense regardless (although i'm not sure if anyone else will ever notice it like you did :P).

I'm surprised that you found R/S/E hard. I've always found it easy!

Told be truth, when I started the hack, there was very little that I knew how to do. I couldn't aim for a great storyline or complex scripts, and about maps, there's just so much you can do with CrystalMap. So what you say about 'exploration', it was very limited what I could do about it (plus my imagination is very limited, too :P) I do now know how to create new maps and how to make relatively complex events or scripts now, but this is a hack that I have started working on almost two years ago and I have started it over three times, and it's a hack that I want to finish the way I started it, with simplicity as far as storyline changes are concerned. I do have bigger goals for a future hack, but I really want to finish this hack to prove myself that I can finish these 'projects', and not just start them.

As for the hack itself, I planned it so that you battle regular trainers that are about the same level as you (although it varies slightly depending on how many pokemon each regular trainer has), leaders and bosses could be 5 to 15% higher levelled than you (unless you do a lot of grinding, that could let you be about the same level as them before obedience becomes a problem), and that wild pokemon are about 5% to 10% lower levelled than your pokemon, more or less. Plus, there's also to take into account that a trained pokemon over time can be up to roughly 25% better than an untrained pokemon considering stat exp and the fact you can choose which moves you keep and teach it.

You are forced into battling nearly every trainer because otherwise, then you could really find yourself underlevelled. And one may think, then way not just decreasing the pokemon levels altogether? Because offering the possibility of battling 'bonus' trainers would make the game much easier for the player that battles them.

All in all, when I released it I was happy that I had managed to implement the exact difficulty I was looking for, and that I was able to maintain a progression where the game doesn't get much harder or much easier at random points; I've played through the hack some times, and everytime got the same feeling. Not trying to overhype myself or the hack, but there aren't probably many hacks where there's been put as much work on pokemon and level selection, or that has gone through every learnset one by one knowing that you aren't actually going to moify the movepools, just for balancing sake. If you were asking yourself how in the world is it possible to take two years (could be very well ~1500 hours) to make half a hack that looks nearly the same to Pokemon Crystal, now you can see why! Anyway, if this paragraph somehow feels to you that I'm saying this just because I could be annoyed because you didn't like the hack, this is certainly not the reality, but I just felt the need to say this I guess, haha.

Anyway, this is really the mindset I have always had with the hack overall, which as I see, differs from what you like completely... and maybe from what most people like unfortunately... I don't know, this is the kind of hack I personally enjoy myself. I probably I shouldn't be saying this, but I personally didn't like Prism very much (but obviously I acknowledge that it's a fantastic hack) because I found it too complex in terms of storyline. Personally I don't like very much hacks where you regularly have to figure out how to get past some point of it by doing some quests or other stuff, and then having to figure out what you have to do. I stopped playing prism at a point where I didn't exactly get stuck, but I was kinda lost, overall, if that does make any sense... I don't want to sound like I'm just saying this because I'm talking to you, Miksy, but I found Dark Energy more enjoyable in the sense that the quests were not as complex, though I must admit I stopped playing it at some point but mainly because of irl stuff.

Anyway, since I am realising that I'm going kinda off-topic I might as well end the post right now. Thanks for your honest opinion, Miksy, but I would hope that other people won't share it, nothign personal! :P.

Last edited by Crystal_ (2013-12-12 17:30:37)

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#56 2013-12-12 18:30:41

Miksy91
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Registered: 2010-10-16
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Yeah, I guess I didn't really think about the fact that this is still your first hack, and you started out by not doing anything complex with it.

Crystal_ wrote:

You are forced into battling nearly every trainer because otherwise, then you could really find yourself underlevelled. And one may think, then way not just decreasing the pokemon levels altogether? Because offering the possibility of battling 'bonus' trainers would make the game much easier for the player that battles them.

It's still different from making the trainers avoidable so that the player would battle the trainers anyhow. It's all about the "mindset". If you make the trainer unavoidable, it gives the impression that the trainer is waiting for you and wants to take you down. If a trainer is instead wandering around, fishing or doing something else, you're not forced to battle him/her, and thus, the impression given to the player is totally different. However, the player will probably want to challenge all of the trainers anyhow to get as much experience as possible.

Crystal_ wrote:

I'm surprised that you found R/S/E hard. I've always found it easy!

I indeed think those games are too hard. RBY and GSC were nice while all the other games seem to require grinding without any logical purpose. Though it's true that GSC are also way too easy after beating Morty or so. But until then, I think the difficult level in them is well-balanced.
But still what comes to grinding... there is no fun in having to do that, it's nothing but waste of player's time really. Personally, when I play a pokemon game that wishes me to grind, and if the game isn't somehow extremely immersive, I usually just quit playing. It's not about your hack, but every hack in general. Also if the hack is too boring and doesn't give any kind of excitement, that usually makes me stop playing as well.

I guess I even went too negative about this, sorry about that. I could have give similar feedback to most hacks out there. Not that I would see my own hack as "perfect" in any way, there is a lot I can critisize myself about that as well!

And now that I think about it... I wouldn't say "difficulty" was the thing that made me quit playing. Of course that strengthened my choice, but what made me to stop was the fact that I didn't have a "need" to see how the hack would continue. I just got bored of playing this. Same thing happened with Bronze by the way - didn't get far with that either.

Last edited by Miksy91 (2013-12-12 18:40:07)

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#57 2013-12-13 05:16:46

erik19borgnia
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Registered: 2013-12-08
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

I'm going to try this!
It's cool that someone has made a hack of Crystal with more difficulty :).

Erik

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#58 2013-12-30 20:45:19

virus95x
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Registered: 2012-04-03
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Jar: http://peperonity.com/go/sites/mview/ra … o/47026952

Please let me know if I have missed something ASAP.

Last edited by virus95x (2013-12-30 20:58:41)

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#59 2013-12-30 21:51:24

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Well, it seems like you named it Pokemon Pyrate instead of Pokemon Pyrite!

BTW, there are two new videos in the first post, although they've been there for a few days. Plus, information on bugfixes.

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#60 2013-12-30 23:15:05

virus95x
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Registered: 2012-04-03
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Crystal_ wrote:

Well, it seems like you named it Pokemon Pyrate instead of Pokemon Pyrite!

BTW, there are two new videos in the first post, although they've been there for a few days. Plus, information on bugfixes.

Fixed the game name on the website but not on the file. I do that with a new version of the game once you update it, sorry for the trouble.

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#61 2014-01-01 15:07:58

Pokemonking
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From: Sinnoh
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Tell me one thing crystal that how many levels you delayed of evolution with each pokemon.My toto is in 22 lvl but not evolving.

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#62 2014-01-01 16:40:32

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Tell me one thing crystal that how many levels you delayed of evolution with each pokemon.My toto is in 22 lvl but not evolving.

It's about to evolve; in fact maybe by the time you read this, it's already evolved. Anyway, I don't want to give much info on these kind of details. If you play without knowing when pokemon x evolves or when it learns move y, things can be more exciting and unpredictable!

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#63 2014-01-10 01:56:56

Pokemonking
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Hey crystal where is move tutor and the tm exchanger in game corner

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#64 2014-01-11 00:10:44

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Hey crystal where is move tutor and the tm exchanger in game corner

It's just that they are not accesible yet. You got to reach a certain point before they appear.


On another note, I've been working on some stuff I'd like to share since I released the first beta. Not much, but there are a couple of new interesting features. The video descriptions contain everything there is to know about them to be honest:

EV trainer system
Virtual trainers in the trainer house

Last edited by Crystal_ (2014-01-11 00:11:36)

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#65 2014-02-18 18:51:35

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Minor update (stuff I've been working on recently, it's not much, as I've been quite busy for over a month):

Trainer base money data overhauled: before, you could get insanely high amount of money from around the second half of the game, while in the early stages, it was maybe too little. Changes applied accordingly.

Very slight increase on the experience points obtained. It's basically a linear term i've added to the exp formula that ignores level and base exp of opponent and is added to the result of the original formula, meaning that it's more relevant in the very early game and becomes basically relevant as the game advances. As I said, it's hardly noticeable overall, but is welcome in the early stages of the game, where the hack has been reported to be a bit harder.

X attack / X defense / X special / X speed can only be used once at the same time on a pokemon. That means, if during one battle, you use X attack in your Totodile, you won't be able to use either of those four items during the battle until/unless you switch pokemon (meaning the boost will disappear)

Thief isn't permanent in trainer battles. That means, only items stolen from wild pokemon are obtained permanently (wild pokemon never use thief themselves anyway). Against trainers the effects of thief (either used by the player or by the opponent) will only last during the battle; when it ends the items in the player's party would be the same as before the battle.

Minor tweaks in Johto. A (very) few amount of trainers are now dodgeable, slight modifications in some trainer parties, a couple of additional trainers in new locations, and Leaf Stone can now be obtained like the other three regular stones as it was always intended to be.

All of these features will be present in the next release of Pokemon Pyrite

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#66 2014-03-12 23:34:10

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Pokemon Pyrite - Badge-Sensitive Level Cap

Description (as shown in the video):

Do you guys remember the obedience system I implemented? I have now decided to take this concept to the next level and replace the obedience system with something else that looks better in my eyes. The purpose is the same: to prevent players from overtraining Pokemon too much.

So, instead of Pokemon starting to disobey when their level surpasses the "badge level", with this new feature, Pokemon will just not get past said "badge level". In other words, when Pokemon reach the minimum experience required to grow up to the level determined by the "badge level", anymore experience will be disregarded, even if it's not enough to grow to "badge level"+1.

The game will show up the exact amount of experience you gained, be it 273, 14, or even 0. This will also apply to the general level 100 cap (instead of saying 'it gained 4521 exp. points' despite not gaining a single point, it will now say that the Pokemon gained 0 exp. points).

In the video, I use a badge level of 45 as an example. While it's not shown in the video, I've also made sure that Pokemon left in the daycare also cap at the same experience points as when battling. Lastly, I've also edited the text accordingly, such as gym leader speeches, to follow this implementation instead of the obedience system.

For more updates follow:
http://hax.iimarck.us/topic/2811/
Latest:
http://hax.iimarck.us/post/34275/#p34275

Mas información:
http://wahackforo.com/t-24126/pokemon-p … 1-released
Ultimas actualizaciones:
http://wahackforo.com/t-24126-pag4

And, if you are feeling adventurous today, check out the ASM:
http://pastebin.com/WWDLjJAY

Last edited by Crystal_ (2014-03-12 23:35:23)

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#67 2014-03-14 23:36:27

2qe6647
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Registered: 2012-11-17
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

The new system looks better than the other, at least past the leage. I got by accident my dragonite another level past the last badge limit, and is a bit annoying the random disobey.

I won't need to go back to the daycare to reset the exp and continue leveling other pokemon to fill up the dex.

Is possible to get digglet and misdreavus before kanto?

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#68 2014-03-14 23:58:04

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

No, they are not found in Kanto. There are a few other Pokemon that can't be found in Johto either.

Anyway, I'd suggest not to focus on things like filling up the Pokedex in beta 0.1 because the next release has many new features that make it not really compatible to beta 0.1. Just saying though, you are free to do you whatever you want (obviously), and even if you want to continue the next version of the hack from a save state of beta 0.1, there's nothing that would make the game crash, but a few things may be weird. I've considered removing the beta 0.1 link for these reasons, but I don't think many people is downloading it lately anyway.

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#69 2014-04-24 11:50:13

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

New update. Viridian Forest has been fully implemented. I've been also working on improving the AI of some trainer classes that needed it.

Anyway, some screens:

8OcTESN.png  Czb4UsS.png  j6PQlnc.png  syZSVNS.png  pkkcRd9.png  C5as2qS.png

Last edited by Crystal_ (2014-04-24 16:11:36)

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#70 2014-04-24 18:12:41

Miksy91
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Nice work.

You're using the disassembly so there was no need for dropping out anything while implementing it either, right?

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#71 2014-04-24 20:38:39

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

I'm actually not working over the disassembly, albeit I'm constantly using it as a reference, so I probably should have!

I replaced the unused Safari Zone entry in the map headers, and added one additional entry in the town map / fly points table.

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#72 2014-06-17 21:37:43

Crystal_
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

A couple of new features I've just implemented: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sGAdCimWWs

1. Money is no longer halved upon losing a battle. The money lost will depend on the highest level of your party Pokemon.
2. Experience gain boost when the enemy Pokemon has a higher level than the player's Pokemon (the higher the relative difference, the higher the boost)

For further details watch the video and read its description! :)
ASM for the curious: http://pastebin.com/gVx88Uy5

See all the new features for the next release under Next Release Features in the OP.

Last edited by Crystal_ (2014-06-17 22:06:25)

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#73 2014-09-07 18:14:06

Crystal_
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From: Spain
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Remodeled the OP just because. I can say I have progressed quite a bit since the last post. I'm pretty much done with half Kanto, and the hack should be finished in less than six months.

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#74 2014-10-26 12:15:14

2qe6647
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Registered: 2012-11-17
Post 8/19

Re: Pokemon Pyrite

Did you remove any download links?

The last time I played was around when the disovedence was still  there, and I would like to play it again but with the level caps instead of disovedence and the new exp formula

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#75 2014-10-26 17:30:42

Crystal_
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From: Spain
Registered: 2012-09-16
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Re: Pokemon Pyrite

2qe6647 wrote:

Did you remove any download links?

The last time I played was around when the disovedence was still  there, and I would like to play it again but with the level caps instead of disovedence and the new exp formula

Yes, I'm waiting until I finish the hack before I post a download link again. I've come to the conclusion that if everybody plays betas long before the hack is finished, when I'm finally done with it, there will be hardly any interest left. Plus I've updated a lot of stuff related to the mechanics that there's no point keeping such an old beta...

Anyway, the hack should be finished around 3 months, hopefully 4 at most.

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