Skeetendo

’Cause all games were better on the GBC

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#201 2014-12-27 07:18:51

ShavrakChay
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Registered: 2013-09-15
Post 5/5

Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Yeah, I am curious too as to if this is dead or not. I hope not since I do look forward to a more completed and full hack to the game.

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#202 2016-10-26 10:41:42

GeminiRage
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Registered: 2012-04-04
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Good lord, I can't believe it's been three years since I touched this hack.  Man...

Well, better late than never I suppose.  Let's get this out of the way quickly.

raIgzcP.png

Touhoumon Ordinary Version v1.3 is here!  As usual, you can download the latest version from the first post.

The updates to this version include:
-ZUN!  He now has a proper team to battle you with! 
-Revised starters.  Ran has now been replaced with Sakuya.  Looking back, I realized the idea of even trying to make a feasible rock-paper-scissors starter triangle that consisted of likable Touhous was just silly, and I'm just going to throw that concept out the window.  I personally feel Sakuya presents the same degree of challenge that Ran did as a starter, as she is an Ice-type who doesn't learn any Ice moves until LV19 (20 if you evolve her), and is defensively oriented in terms of stats.
-As a result of the starter change, the Rival lineup has been changed to reflect this.  Some Touhoumon also had to be relocated. 
*Chibi Ran is now a swarm in Route 38
*The Chibi Koishi swarm has been moved to Mt. Mortar's first room.
*Chibi Sakuya is a 1% encounter in the Burned Tower
*You now get a Flandre for trading a Remilia to the person in Blackthorn City.
-A few rebalances have been made to some moves.  Vine Whip, for example, now has 35 uses instead of the measly 10 it had before,  I honestly have no idea why Game Freak left this earlygame move with so few uses until sixth gen...
-A few bugs have been fixed.  For example, I rearranged the Goldenrod Gym a little bit so that it's impossible to leave after defeating Whitney without being stopped by the girl nearest to her.
-There may be other stuff changed as well--it's been so long I forgot how much has been changed since the last patch update.

So what's left for Touhoumon Ordinary Version?
-Graphics revision.  One thing I have developed over my absence was a sense of style consistency, and quite frankly, a lot of the Touhou sprites in this hack were simply chosen on a basis of what looked better at the time.  And while the devamps of the 3rd-gen sprites turned out pretty well for the most part, there were a number of them that could've been handled better.  Then I noticed a lot of them seem to lack a sense of depth and look very flat compared to others.  With all of that said, I think this will probably be one of my primary endeavors for the next update.  In addition, there are still some other parts of the hack that I had yet to appropriately Touhou-fy, such as the credits sequence and the Game Corner.  I still have those sprites someone drew up all those years ago, it's just a matter of me trying to get them into the ROM since while the credits sprites are uncompressed, they're not aligned it a neat order for a tile editor to easily work with.
-Bugs and quirks.  Given how many ways there are to go about playing this hack, I am certain there are probably several little bugs, typos, and other things that have gone unnoticed.  I would appreciate being notified of these as soon as possible.
-Music.  Yes, I am still looking into replacing the soundtrack of this hack with a custom, Touhou-based one.


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#203 2016-10-26 13:32:33

Mmmmmm
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From: West Virginia
Registered: 2015-05-17
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Oh wow, it's nice that you're still updating your hack after so long! I played this hack years ago and almost finished, but lost steam somewhere in Kanto. I should definitely replay it since it's been updated and I've become a much larger Touhou fan than back then.

I'd also be interested in helping you with some music. I have a backlog right now so I might not get to them for a while, but if there are any specific tracks you can think of that you'd really want ported, I'll keep them in mind (and I have my own ideas as well for songs I'd love to port).

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#204 2016-10-30 06:17:09

TheDarkSlayer
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From: United States
Registered: 2016-10-30
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

This is probably my favorite ROM hack of all time. Generation 2 was by far one of my favorite Generations and Johto was so much fun to explore. Add in Touhou(mon) and you got a recipe for perfection. The difficulty curve isn't impossible to beat, but it's still pretty difficult yet fun. I played this first almost 2 years ago and I've already compiled a full team of Level 100's which was also the team I beat the game with. I can't believe you updated the game that you haven't touched in a long time and I'm really impressed and amazed that you completed it. And talk about perfect timing with the addition of the ZUN battle. If you've been following Pokemon Sun and Moon news, Red and Blue/Green are gonna be returning in the game.

I do have a few things that I ran into tho...

So I applied the new IPS file onto my existing copy of the ROM (I believe it's version 1.2 or the version before this one) and I decided to see if the IPS was properly applied. I went to Blackthorn City where you mentioned in the patch notes that the trade was modified. I forgot what the original trade was, but I do believe that you obtain Sakuya from it. She mentioned something along the lines of "How's my Flandre doing? My CRemilia really likes me now!" or something like that. So it meant the IPS was applied correctly. Anyways, I assumed that ZUN will be at Mount Silver just like Red was in the original, but he wasn't there. So I'm left with three options.

1. Get a fresh ROM of Pokemon Silver and reapply the IPS, then boot up my save file.
2. Defeat the Elite Four and Lance again since in GSC and HGSS, in order to rematch Red after fighting him once, you gotta rematch the E4 and Lance.
3. ZUN is in a completely new location that I don't know about.

Another thing. You mentioned how Sakuya replaces Ran as one of the Starters now. Well....my Starter was Ran, so what's going to happen? I know you can rematch your rival at Indigo Plateau on certain days of the week, and you said his team is now changed to reflect that. Will I end up facing any problems?

Here's a text error I encountered while playing the game. Lily Black is known as ELily-B in most versions of Touhoumon. I think there was a slight error oversight which made her name appear as "Elily-B" with the "L" in lower case. This wasn't the case for ELily-W (Lily White) from what I can remember.

I do want to make a couple of suggestions regarding move changes and movepools. Due to a glitch, the move summary for Earthquake shows up as "y HP." Will you fix that?
Also, I did notice that you dropped the base power of Psychic from 90 to 80, but retaining its PP at 10. Maybe bump it up to 15 so it's like a Special counterpart to Shadow Ball, since they both have a chance at lowering either Defense or Special Defense, as well as Shadow Ball being Physical in Gen 2.

Lastly, Thunder Punch and Fire Punch. The reason why I loved Gen 2 was because TMs for the Elemental Punches existed. Pokemon like Typhlosion, Ampharos, Magmar, and Electabuzz got both of these moves, with Electabuzz even getting Ice Punch. This allowed for diversified movepools in order to counter different type match ups. Thunder Punch in particular was an amazing choice for Typhlosion and Magmar in order to combat against Water Types that they're weak to. As the generations went on, both Fire and Thunder Punch were widely accessible to many Fire and Electric types through Egg Moves and Move Tutors. Fire and Electric were kinda like opposites that went together, since things like Emboar, Arcanine, and Rapidash get Wild Charge, Manectric and Eelectross get Flamethrower, Elekid-Electabuzz-Electivire and Magby-Magmar-Magmortar lines often being version exclusives, and Reshiram (Dragon/Fire) and Zekrom(Dragon/Electric) are the Gen 5 mascots, etc.

So, with the reasons above, I think it would be fair to give Fire-types like Sunnymilk, Utsuho, Orin, Yuki, and Yumemi access to Thunder Punch via TM and Electric-types such as Kirisame (PC-98 Lord Helix Marisa), Lunachild, and Iku access to Fire Punch via TM as well. This would also apply to Ice Punch to a select few Pokemon, but I happened to use Yuki and Lunachild through my playthrough and I was slightly disappointed that Yuki didn't get Thunder Punch and Lunachild didn't get Fire Punch, like my Typhlosion and Ampharos did in my Pokemon Gold playthrough.

As a person who's got a good knowledge of competitive Pokemon battling, I would love to help you with idea suggestions regarding the movepools of a lot of the Touhoumons in order to make their movepools a bit more diversified. Overall, this was an amazing ROM hack and I'm looking forward to fixing things up so I can fight ZUN. Oh and here's a video I made nearly two years ago showcasing the final battle against your rival at Indigo Plateau: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDs185yNtlQ
The audio and video quality are both utter shit since I used my Emulator's recorder feature, but I thought of it as a way to pay tribute to your ROM hack. Overall, very nicely done ROM hack.

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-11-01 01:22:24)

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#205 2016-10-30 11:54:05

GeminiRage
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Registered: 2012-04-04
Post 80/93

Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

ZUN is at the same location Red would be in Mt. Silver i.e. that yellow corridor in the middle of the mountain.  And yes, you must defeat The Elite Four+Lance for him to appear, otherwise you won't find him.  I recall trying to simply warp to his location during testing on a save that hadn't cleared much of the game yet--there is definitely a trigger to his appearance.

There's nothing a patch can really do about progress you already made.  So you cannot get the Flandre from Blackthorn City if you already traded for a Sakuya in the previous patch.  Same if you picked Ran as a starter, you're still going to have her unless you start a new game.
That said, there are other ways to find these Touhous--Flandre is found in one of the Kanto routes of the postgame.

Regarding the bugs...
-Yeah, that's definitely a typo with Elily B.
-Sounds like a description pointer error with Earthquake.  Will need to check that.

Regarding movepools: A lot of the movepools were based on what was being used in other versions of Touhoumon at the time I had made this hack, with a number of changes made to accommodate for some of the moves which weren't around in Gen 2.  At the time, it was more about making sure the Touhous were decently functional first, though there are still some stragglers whom I fear may never be very good without completely overhauling this hack and using one of those data restructures that are currently being worked on.  Kisume for example, thrived on Will-O-Wisp, and without that move all she can do is sponge physical attacks.
I do believe I mentioned a long time ago that I would be reworking movepools later on, so I suppose this would be the time to start doing so.  With the recent addition of learned move editors, it should be a much smoother process nowadays.
The thing I really want to focus on, however, are egg moves.  They were never listed them in the Touhoudex, but odds are you may have faced trainers using moves that you have never be able to learn on your Touhous... This is because those are in fact, egg moves.  With that said, a Touhoudex update is probably going to be the first thing I release before any new patch updates.  The new version of the Touhoudex will finally have all of the current Touhoumon locations, along with the current possible egg moves.

EDIT: Might as well give an example of the graphics revision I've been doing

2zGE6ls.png
This is the Chibi Momiji sprite currently used in Touhoumon Ordinary Version.

rRzhnYn.png
This is the new Chibi Momiji sprite that has been devamped from the latest Touhoumon 3rd-gen hacks.  In addition to looking more like what Momiji should look like, this version was also given better shading and highlights as well.  I am hoping to do this with the rest of the sprites in this hack, though it is going to take a while to update everyone.

Last edited by GeminiRage (2016-10-30 15:14:55)


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#206 2016-10-30 15:24:25

TheDarkSlayer
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From: United States
Registered: 2016-10-30
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

If you want help with Egg Moves, here's an online Touhoumon PokeDex from one of the Gen 3 ROM hacks. It's got details regarding Egg Moves, potential competitive sets, and Level Up and TM moves, as well as Base Stats and the what not. http://touhou.wikia.com/wiki/Touhoudex

If you want any creative input regarding things like "Would this character benefit from getting this move via Egg Move or TM?" then I would love to help out with testing. As I've said, I have a good knowledge of competitive Pokemon battling and which moves are good or bad on different Pokemon and whatnot.

Oh and I love Ran as my starter. She's an excellent mixed attacker with a nice movepool and with the absence of things like Mega Evolution in the Generation 2 games, base 100/100/100 Offensive stats are amazing. Regarding Egg Moves, I don't think I've encountered too many 'mons that used moves that were potentially "illegal."

Edit: Also, the move description for Waterfall says it has a chance to Flinch. I have Waterfall on my ESuwako for STAB+overworld travelling, but I thought in Gens 1-3, Waterfall can't cause Flinching. I don't see any changes at all in the movechanges.txt file that came with the IPS file. Also, there are some moves that I think could use some adjusting in PP, Isolation and Sunny-Milk. Both of these moves raise a single stat by 2 stages (Def for Isolation and Sp.Atk for Suny-Milk), being similar to Iron Defense and Nasty Plot in the regular Pokemon games. However, Isolation has 40 PP and Sunny-Milk has 30 PP. Most stat boosting moves in Pokemon that raise two different stats by one stage each (Dragon Dance, Calm Mind, etc) or one stat by two stages (Swords Dance, Amnesia, etc) all have 20 PP for balancing purposes. Just a few ideas regarding balance changes.

Edit 2: Here's another glitch I encountered. Because I was a lazy fuck, I entered a cheat code that completed my PokeDex. All the sprites are present and I know you mentioned that you're working on graphical edits such as the Momiji example you showed me. Honestly, I think they look fine, but a new set of crisp, clear sprites might be a nice addition. You probably know who Koolboyman is and his ROM hack of Crystal called Pokemon Prism version with moving sprites and newer generation Pokemon. If you haven't seen the trailer, well here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEaUQJP_p1A

In his trailer, there's a bunch of crisp and clear new sprites for things like Sylveon, Weavile, etc. If he can do it, I bet you can too. Anyways, the glitch I encountered in the PokeDex was this. Rinnosuke replaces Celebi and Unown still exists. However, both of their sprites show up as something similar to MissingNo. as a pile of pixels and crap. If you possibly could, maybe try and add in the GS Ball event and have Rinnosuke as an event legendary or something. In one version of Touhoumon I played, Unown was basically replaced with something called AlphiChan, using Unown's sprites from one of the Moemon games. If you could possibly import that or replace Unown with, say, Akyuu, then that would be interesting.

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-10-30 16:00:13)

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#207 2016-10-30 15:47:05

GeminiRage
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Registered: 2012-04-04
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

I think you misunderstood what I meant.  I already have the list of egg moves and such with me, it's simply a matter of rewriting and rearranging the tables to include or change egg moves around.  Which can be quite a drag to do manually with how pointers work (i.e. suppose I gave Chibi Youmu a new egg move.  CYoumu is #74, and I would have to repoint everyone after her in the Tohodex up by one byte so they draw from the proper string.)  Other tools and documents I have already allow me to look at the stats and parameters I have set--none of this information is unknown to me.

Personally, I only want to make small tweaks to the Touhous--I have no desire to heavily change any of them from their established roles and stat spreads.  I am more open to adjusting movepool adjustments, adding more TMs and perhaps tweaking when they learn them via level-ups.  I've even considered changing evolution levels/methods for some Touhous as well, but this is really up in their air.

I am going to say that TM revision may be an order at some point; while I did change quite a few TMs to teach different moves from the original game, I still wonder if I should change a few more.

It's fine if you preferred Ran as a starter; she can still be found in the wild just like nearly every other Touhou in the game if you look hard enough.


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#208 2016-10-30 16:04:46

TheDarkSlayer
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From: United States
Registered: 2016-10-30
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Ah, understood with the whole Egg Move issue. I did make an edit to my previous post that addresses a few other issues I ran into.

Edit: Okay, I rematched the Elite Four, went to Mount Silver, but nope, still no sign of ZUN/Red. I think you had to talk to Professor Oak or something in HGSS, but I don't know if it's the same in GSC. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-10-30 16:24:45)

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#209 2016-10-30 22:38:30

GeminiRage
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Registered: 2012-04-04
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Worth noting that I tested ZUN using a 100% .sav of the game.  Maybe I should test it more properly through actual progression instead of cheating, but he should be accessible.


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#210 2016-11-01 01:21:45

TheDarkSlayer
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From: United States
Registered: 2016-10-30
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

So I managed to get a rematch in with Silver after updating the ROM. His team was basically the same before and after the update even after choosing Ran as my Starter. He swapped out his EYumeko for EMeira, which made little to no difference, even though my team is all Level 100's while his are in their mid to high 90's. IMHO, you should've kept Yumeko for two reasons.
1. Sakuya vs Yumeko, assuming that the player still has Sakuya in his/her party.
2. Yumeko has a higher BST than that of Meira (540 for Yumeko and 500 for Meira).

Also, just wondering, have you encountered any Shinies while testing the game? The only Shiny I've encountered so far was the Lake Of Rage Shiny Iku (Red Gyarados). I know Shinies are based on IVs in Gen 2, but in almost every Pokemon game I play, I manage to find at least one Shiny before beating the E4 and Champion for the first time. I could just be unlucky, but idk.

I'm not sure if you did re-read the edits I made on some of older posts, but I'll copy/paste them to notify you.

Here's another glitch I encountered. Because I was a lazy fuck, I entered a cheat code that completed my PokeDex. The glitch I encountered in the PokeDex was this. Rinnosuke replaces Celebi and Unown still exists. However, both of their sprites show up as something similar to MissingNo. as a pile of pixels and crap. If you possibly could, maybe try and add in the GS Ball event and have Rinnosuke as an event legendary or something. In one version of Touhoumon I played, Unown was basically replaced with something called AlphiChan, using Unown's sprites from one of the Moemon games. If you could possibly import that or replace Unown with, say, Akyuu, then that would be interesting.

Also, the move description for Waterfall says it has a chance to Flinch. I have Waterfall on my ESuwako for STAB+overworld travelling, but I thought in Gens 1-3, Waterfall can't cause Flinching. Is it intended to Flinch opponents or is it just like pre-Gen 4 Waterfall?

Also, still no sign of ZUN/Red. I really don't want to start a new game, but any ideas to fix it? I get the feeling I might not be the only one experiencing this. If you do happen to have a Google Plus account, I can give you a copy of my .sav file to you since the only thing I don't have is the ZUN/Red encounter. You can feel free to use it for bug fixing or to check any differences between your "cheated" version or a version where I progressed through all the gyms.

Looking forward for the new sprites and bug fixes. ;)

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-11-01 01:25:24)

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#211 2016-11-01 10:37:18

GeminiRage
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Registered: 2012-04-04
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Well, of course your Rival isn't going to have a different team if Ran was your starter; because choosing the leftmost orb in Professor Elm's lab back in the begining of the game would mean the Rival always has Alice in his teams.  The patch only changed what was inside that orb, not what the Rival would steal.

Shinies do exist; I posted a picture in this thread of a shiny Kisume I encountered at one point when I was still developing this hack...that ran away from me :(
I have not tampered with the IV code that determines shinyness, so you're probably just unlucky.

UNOWN and Rinnosuke are like that because they aren't implemented yet.  Unown is garbled up because when I replaced all of the battle sprites in the hack, I had overwritten the Unown graphics in the process and never replaced them.  Same with Rinnosuke, though I have his sprites drawn up, are just not inserted due to unavailability.
Unown and the Ruins of Alph were something I sealed off until I could figure out what to do with the place--it really was little more than a silly distraction in the original game that led to no rewards.  I may as well open it up eventually for the sake of completeness.
As for Rinnosuke, maybe I should look up the GS Ball event.  I originally had something else in mind for him, but scrapped the plan after realizing how much scripting I would need to learn to pull it off.

Waterfall is supposed to flinch at a 20% rate, but for some reason the change to add in that little component of the move didn't make it in (maybe I did that in another ROM, who knows).  I wanted to give Waterfall some reason to exist alongside Surf, which was a superior move in every way and Waterfall being only fit for HM slaves.  Anyways,  it will be fixed in the next update, along with a number of move description pointers I have encountered.

I'll test again just to see if I missed something in the patch that is preventing ZUN from appearing.  If I do find something, I'll try to have a fix available as soon as possible.


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#212 2016-11-01 16:00:22

TheDarkSlayer
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Registered: 2016-10-30
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Ah, thanks for the update. Looking forward for updated sprites, bug fixes, move fixes, including updates to which 'Mons get access to the Elemental Punches via TM, and much more.

Oh and the GS Ball event was only programmed into Crystal version, so that won't work. However, have you ever tried putting Rinnosuke/Celebi into an area different than the Ilex Forest? I've seen Gen 3 ROM hacks do that, such as Fire Red Omega, where the Legendary Beasts didn't roam around Kanto, as well as adding in new areas for event exclusive and RSE exclusive legendaries. Also, will Rinnosuke be a common 'Mon or a Legendary?

As for Unown, take a look at this wiki page: http://worldlink.wikia.com/wiki/Alphichan
They're found in Touhoumon World Link, which is an Emerald ROM hack. They all share the same forms as regular Unown, except they use their Moemon sprites. They all have a weird Base Stat spread of 180 HP and 200 Speed, while having 30 in everything else. It also only learns Invasion Green, which was one of Nue's signature moves in World Link. It's basically a renamed Transform. I know Nue isn't available in Ordinary version, but did you happen to rename Transform into a new move? I think you did say you got rid of Hidden Power, which was Unown's only move. Oh and FYI, Unown ! and Unown ? were only introduced in Gen 3.

Also, could it be that because I never visited the Ruins of Alph that ZUN/Red is still locked?

I mostly use Steam to communicate between my friends and people I've met online. Just click on the green "Website" button under my profile if you want to add me on Steam so we can talk a little bit easier. It's a link to my Steam Profile btw.

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-11-01 16:26:05)

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#213 2016-11-02 10:40:12

GeminiRage
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Registered: 2012-04-04
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

*sigh* Was it really necessary to post so many page-stretching screenshots?

Anyways... The only one of those Tohodex entries that is actually a typo would be EX-Merlin's entry.  The others look fine, and if they look off, it is most likely due to text limitations that required me to squeeze them in somehow.

The glitched graphics were already mentioned by TheDarkSlayer.
As for the Trainer Card, it's been like that since forever, and I haven't been able to properly edit it--AgiXP seems to crash on me whenever I try to extract the sprite,  and I'm not about to try inserting into its address if I can't even extract it properly.

Decorations should be in the hack, although a large amount of them are inaccessible without using Mystery Gift--something that I don't believe you can really utilize on an emulator.  I'm also curious why the Snorlax Doll isn't a Genji--I could have sworn I replaced that sprite unless you're playing an older version?

Dialog rewrites are low priority at the moment.  I'll try to keep them in mind but don't expect them to change anytime soon...

The starters were purely chosen due to being among my favorites.  Initially I had tried to incorporate some form of a weakness triangle, but ditched the idea since this isn't truly Pokemon and as such, does not have to follow its traditions.

Anyways, the main reason I wanted to post here was to announce I have finally finished adding the egg move lists to the Tohodex.txt.  In doing so, however, I have realized that a large number of these moves were either TM-learned or learned naturally, essentially making their inclusions in these tables redundant since those moves would be inherited anyways.  So what was trimmed off of the table?  See for yourself! (Note that the table was originally ported straight from the 3rd gen hacks)

Cirno - Icy Wind and Endure (will be replacing these with Blade Flash and Slack Off)
Aya - Mud Slap and Swagger
Suika - Fire Punch
Shizuha - Rest
Nitori - DynamicPunch
Minoriko - Sleep Talk and Rest
Yuugi - Headbutt (she actually doesn't learn this as a TM currently, but may as well enable it...)
Sanae - Swagger
Medicine - Mud Slap
Kisume - Rock Slide
Yamame - Mud Slap, Giga Drain and Rock Slide
Star S - DynamicPunch (again, currenlt doesn't learn as a TM currently, but will enable)
Chen - Fire Punch and Rest
Momiji - Agility (she learns this naturally)
Rumia - Night Shade (she learns this naturally in my version)
Komachi - Fury Cutter and Mud Slap
Keine - Thunderpunch and Future Sight (this is learned naturally)
Meiling - Endure
Yuuka - Mud Slap
Lunachild - Zap Cannon
Youmu - Endure and Mud Slap
Sunnymilk - Mud Slap, Steel Wing (not an enabled TM on her) and Solarbeam
Lyrica - Psychic and Swift
Rin - Return
Merlin - Black Wind
Mystia - Screech (already learns this naturally in my version)
Iku - Zap Cannon and Reflect
Tokiko - Swift
Koakuma - Mud Slap (not an enabled TM on her)
Wriggle - Mud Slap and DynamicPunch
Parsee - Swagger (will be replacing with Bubblebeam)
Orange - Rock Slide and Rest
Hakurei - Double Team and DynamicPunch
Alice - Protect, Light Screen, Endure
Mokou - Fire Punch, Headbutt and DynamicPunch
Swuako - Ice Punch and Endure
Kana - Black Wind
Rikako - Zap Cannon
Remilia - Mud Slap and Black Wind (learned naturally)
Rika - Swift and Shadow Ball
Mima - Rock Slide (not an enabled TM on her)
Gengetsu - Rock Slide and Mud Slap
Yumemi - Icy Wind
Shinki - Ice Punch
Meira - Mud Slap
Koishi - Icy Wind
Chiyrui - Mirror Coat (learned naturally) and Sonicboom (not an enabled TM on her)
Utsuho - Mud Slap and Swagger
Kaguya - Swagger and Mud Slap
Shikieiki - Mud Slap and Future Sight (learned naturally)
Ran - Rock Slide and Reflect
Eirin - Mud Slap
Kanako - Reflect and Protect
Sara - Thunderpunch and Mud Slap
Luize - Mud Slap
Mai - Mud Slap and Swagger
Kurumi - Mud Slap, Reflect, and Gust (learned naturally)
Elly - Fury Cutter (learned naturally), Mind's Eye (learned naturally), Rock Slide
Mugetsu - Swift and Growl (learned naturally)


Tohomons who could use more egg moves - they currently have (or will have after eliminating redundancies) three or fewer.
Mystia, Letty, Tokiko, Hakurei, Tenshi, Rika, Meira, Koishi, Yukari, Luize, Elly

With that said, I am most likely going to be reworking a lot of the egg movepools (and enabling some TMs), especially for the Tohomon that are severely lacking in this department.  I've already come up with a few ideas for some Tohomon, but as usual, I should probably take some feedback into consideration before I decide to just throw in a bunch of moves willy-nilly.


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#214 2016-11-02 15:31:34

TheDarkSlayer
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

So the next update will include TM and move fixes, as well as other major changes? I'm gonna guess that they're gonna be changes such as the TM fixes I suggested, the Earthquake description typo, and updating Waterfall? Here's another suggestion I have for Sunnymilk and Lunachild. To encourage the usage of "stronger" Fire and Electric types such as Marisa, Yuki, Utsuho, Iku, Chiyuri. They all get either Thunderbolt or Flamethrower via Level Up depending on their type (Save for Marisa, who's Electric/Fire and gets T-Bolt and Dragon Meteo instead). I think it's best that Sunny and Luna don't get access to Flamethrower/Thunderbolt unless it's through Egg Moves. Plus, since my ELunachild is already at Level 100 and with no move relearner tutors in Gen 2, I won't get access to Thunderbolt (Sorry for being a bit selfish, heh). Then again, Ampharos, the premier Electric-type of Generation 2, didn't get Thunderbolt either via level up. It was available through Egg Move by breeding with Pikachu/Raichu or by Move Tutor in Crystal (In which Mareep and Flaaffy couldn't be found in the wild....).

Also, have you found anything that's preventing ZUN from appearing?

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-11-02 18:47:05)

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#215 2016-11-02 18:31:13

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

TheDarkSlayer wrote:

Here's another suggestion I have for Sunnymilk and Lunachild. To encourage the usage of "stronger" Fire and Electric types such as Marisa, Yuki, Utsuho, Iku, Chiyuri. They all get either Thunderbolt or Flamethrower via Level Up depending on their type (Save for Marisa, who's ELectric/Fire and gets T-Bolt and Dragon Meteo instead). I think it's best that Sunny and Luna don't get access to Flamethrower/Thunderbolt unless it's through Egg Moves.

Most of those Tohomon you mentioned already learn those moves naturally.
Sunnymilk and Lunachild already do not learn them naturally.  Egg moves might be an option for them since those moves aren't TMs in this generation, but the whole point behind the Three Light Fairies is that they're earlygame catches that can fill in some type role until you find someone better later on, much like the Three Monkeys in Gen 5.


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#216 2016-11-02 18:41:12

TheDarkSlayer
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

GeminiRage wrote:
TheDarkSlayer wrote:

Here's another suggestion I have for Sunnymilk and Lunachild. To encourage the usage of "stronger" Fire and Electric types such as Marisa, Yuki, Utsuho, Iku, Chiyuri. They all get either Thunderbolt or Flamethrower via Level Up depending on their type (Save for Marisa, who's Electric/Fire and gets T-Bolt and Dragon Meteo instead). I think it's best that Sunny and Luna don't get access to Flamethrower/Thunderbolt unless it's through Egg Moves.

Most of those Tohomon you mentioned already learn those moves naturally.
Sunnymilk and Lunachild already do not learn them naturally.  Egg moves might be an option for them since those moves aren't TMs in this generation, but the whole point behind the Three Light Fairies is that they're earlygame catches that can fill in some type role until you find someone better later on, much like the Three Monkeys in Gen 5.

Exactly on point there. Also, any updates on what's preventing ZUN from appearing?

Speaking about the Three Elemental Monkeys, have you ever considered giving Sunnymilk, Star Sapphire, and Lunachild having the same exact base stat spread like the Three Monkeys did? It would make sense since as you mentioned, the Three Fairies of Light are like the Elemental Monkeys, plus the Fire/Water/Electric Trio can be a mirror to Flareon/Vaporeon/Jolteon Trio of Gen 1 Eeveelutions. Currently, they all have different Stat Spreads that I think could be improved a little bit. It could've been either you or someone else on a different Touhoumon page that said that the Base Stat Spreads and Totals of some of the Early-Game Touhoumon are a lot more balanced than in Pokemon, seeing as I used Shizuha, Lunachild, and Mystia all the way to the end of Kanto in my playthrough and I caught them all before fighting Falkner. I know you don't have too many plans to change up any base stats, but here's what I imagined the Three Fairies of Light could have as their base stat spreads and totals:

Base/Chibi:
HP: 45
Atk: 35
Def: 30
Sp. Atk: 50
Sp. Def: 30
Spd: 50
Total: 240
As early-game 'Mons, this base stat spread reflects that. At first, they aren't too well defensively, but they'll have decent attacking stats to utilize Tackle and their weak STAB move (Water Gun, Thunder Shock, Ember). They should then all evolve at Level 18, which I think already happens to all three of them.

Middle:
HP: 55
Atk: 55
Def: 50
Sp. Atk: 75
Sp. Def: 50
Spd: 75
Total: 360
In their middle stage, they'll have better offensive stats, and at this point, the player should be around Goldenrod City, where each of them can learn one of the Elemental Punches via TM. Seeing as their STAB moves rely on Special Attack, their decent Special Attack stat reflects that, along with a decent base Speed. They also get access to Flash, which you mentioned, is now a Base 50 Power Psychic-type move. Although it is an HM, the fact that it can deal damage now means it's a good coverage move against Poison and Fighting types. At this point, they also get Spark (Luna), Bubble Beam (Star), and Flame Wheel (Sunny).

Extra/Final:
HP: 80
Atk: 60
Def: 80
Sp. Atk: 110
Sp. Def: 80
Spd: 110
Total: 520
In their final stage, they'll all have Base 110 Sp. Atk and Speed in order to compete against other stronger 'Mons. Their bulk at 80/80/80 means it's just as bulky as a Flygon in Pokemon, meaning it can take a few hits, but it won't be the best hit taker. Seeing as they'll mostly rely on using their STAB moves for attacking, their Base Attack will only be at Base 60, while their Special Attack will be at 110. They'll still have limited movepools to encourage the usage of stronger 'Mons of the same type that have better movepools, but their Base Stat Spread and Stat Totals that I've presented gives you the option of running these 'Mons.

Aside from the Fire and Thunder Punch fixes I've suggested for Sunnymilk and Lunachild, here a few other things regarding their movepools. The three get access to Hidden Power (via Level Up) and Psychic (via TM). However, with Hidden Power Type depending on IVs and Psychic being a late-game TM you find in Saffron City, they might not be the best moves. Hidden Power also had varying power through Gens 2 through 5 and it was not until Gen 6 that it got a fixed Base Power of 60. Out of all the three, Sunnymilk is the only one who gets a signature move, Sunny Milk, which is basically Nasty Plot. Star Sapphire doesn't get one, since Jamming is available to a few others, and Lunachild's Silencing is available to Koakuma and Shinki as well.

I know you probably won't consider these ideas, but I just thought it would be nice to share my thoughts after you compared the Three Fairies to the Three Monkeys.


Edit: Dishwasher Dewott mentioned that the Gen 3 Trio of Starters (Reimu, Marisa, and Sakuya) are "the perfect fit." However, I disagree! *cough Colress cough*
Anyways, here's why. Marisa becomes Electric/Fire, meaning she has the type advantage over both Reimu and Sakuya. Sakuya has a really bad 4x weakness to Fire types, and her "bulk-based stats" can't really help her. She also has the 4x weakness to Fighting as well. Reimu has decent defensive stats at 90HP/95Def/90Sp.Def, but a STAB boosted Thunderbolt will hurt.

According the Pokemon Showdown online stat calculator for Gen 2, I put in Zapdos who shares the same base 125 Special Attack stat of EMarisa against Poliwrath who shares EReimu's 90/95/90 bulk spread, as well as Water and Flying both being weak to Electric, to see how the damage calculations went. Keep in mind, this was calculated at Level 100 with Maximum Effort Points and IVs for Gen 2.

Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Poliwrath(Water/Fighting): 260-306 (67.8 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Whereas Reimu has absolutely no chance against Marisa, even with her objectively strongest STAB move, Mega Kick. For some stupid reason, Mega Kick wasn't in the Gen 2 damage calculator for Pokemon Showdown. I modified Return's Base Power to 130, changed Poliwrath's type to match EReimu's, and pitted it against a Zapdos that I put in EMarisa's stats. Take a look:

Poliwrath (Normal/Flying) Return (BP 130) vs. Zapdos (Electric/Fire): 176-207 (47.1 - 55.4%) -- 75.9% chance to 2HKO

By this point, even if Marisa lost about 50% of her HP, she can outspeed Reimu and KO her with a STAB Thunderbolt.

I then modified Zapdos's type to be Electric/Fire and modified its moveset to give it Flamethrower, seeing as Flamethrower and Dragon Meteo both share the same Base Power. I also modified Poliwrath's type to Steel/Ice and put in ESakuya's stats for HP (90), Defense (110), and Special Defense (110) and here's what I got.

Zapdos(Electric/Fire) Flamethrower vs. Poliwrath (Ice/Steel): 452-532 (118 - 138.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Basically, Sakuya is fucked.

Unlike the Gen 3 hacks, Sakuya doesn't get Earthquake via TM and Reimu doesn't get Dig via TM as well. However, I did see that Sakuya got Dig via TM. I then modified Dig's base power (60 to 70) on the calculator, modified Zapdos's type to Electric/Fire, put in EMarisa's HP (85) and Defense (70) and reduced Poliwrath's base attack to 75 to match that of Sakuya's. Here's what I got:

Poliwrath (Ice/Steel) Dig (BP 70) vs. Zapdos (Electric/Fire): 214-252 (57.3 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even then, Marisa would've outsped Sakuya and OHKO'd with Dragon Meteo.

In conclusion, Marisa, even when downgraded to Generation 2, is still the strongest and objectively the best starter out of the Reimu/Marisa/Sakuya trio. The best counter to Marisa are probably things like Yuugi, Suwako, and Tenshi, who are all immune to her STAB moves. Tenshi and Suwako both resist her Fire STAB and both can hit back with Earthquake or in Suwako's case, Surf/Hydro Pump. In Generation 3, she was basically a Special Attacking version of Gen 5 and 6 Speed Boost Blaziken. Imagine if Touhoumon got a Gen 6 hack. Seeing that Marisa replaces Charizard, now we have two Mega Evolutions for Marisa....

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-11-03 00:11:44)

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#217 2016-11-03 00:41:09

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

For the most part, their base stat totals stats are already similar what you proposed.  Their spreads, however, are quite different, and this leads them to perform differently.  Here is what they look like right now.

Chibi
Name: CStar S/CLunachild/CSunnymilk
HP:     25       25          40
ATK:    30       30          35
DEF:    55       30          35
SPD:    30       60          50
SP.ATK: 35       60          45
SP.DEF: 65       25          35
BST:    240      240         240

Normal
Name: Star S/Lunachild/Sunnymilk
HP:     45       45          70
ATK:    45       40          45
DEF:    75       60          55
SPD:    55       80          70
SP.ATK: 45       80          55
SP.DEF: 85       45          55
BST:    350      350         350

EX
Name: EStar S/ELunachild/ESunnymilk
HP:     65       85          100
ATK:    60       55          60
DEF:    95       90          90
SPD:    75       110         90
SP.ATK: 95       110         80
SP.DEF: 110      60          85
BST:    500      510         505

It is clear from the stats that Star Sapphire performs best in a defensive role, using moves like Growl, Encore, and occasional speed drops from Bubble(beam) to perform this job (and using Recover whenever HP gets low).  Lunachild is more of a sweeper, with high speed and special attack, but otherwise lacking in the defenses (Her EX form does give her decent physical bulk, but she still won't enjoy taking an Earthquake).  Sunnymilk falls into this strange middle ground and oddly ends up being the weakest offensively in the end (though I think this has a lot to do with her signature move giving her +2 Sp.ATK boosts), but her bulk is not too bad and she has the speed to get first moves against a fair amount of matchups.

I may tweak the EX form stats a bit, to put the BSTs at an equal 500, but do not expect me to shift their roles.

And yes, it's a known fact that most Tohomon are viable endgame.  I believe there is really only a 60 or 70 BST difference between the "weakest" and "strongest" of most non-legendary final forms.  But I feel that's what makes this hack rather unique; it gives the player a lot of freedoms to build their teams using whatever characters they want as opposed to having to continually swap out for better ones as they progress.  While this does raise the concern of creating a rather easy endgame, it's not exactly easy to make a Pokemon hack hard in the first place without deliberately taking things away from the player and giving the AI numerous advantages over you (Notice that it is often the earlygame that's toughest, and after that it gets easier).  Even then, the player could simply level grind until whatever challenge presented is negated by the player's overpowering stats.

Again, starters were chosen largely out of preference, but also because these three in particular have some neat signature moves throughout their level-ups  How well they actually fare against each other is irrelevant largely because Marisa herself is insanely good even without the Speed Boost ability she had in 3rd gen.  Yes, her EX form had Speed Boost in those hacks.  I also think you are seriously overlooking some of Sakuya's movepool; one of her signature moves, Luna Dial, has a 100% Freeze rate when it hits (which it has an 80% accuracy).  She also learns Mind's Eye, which can boost her underwhelming ATK stat to threatening levels and proceed to tear through almost anything with Sculpture.  Other than that, she is a good defensive Tohomon with many resistances and only two major weaknesses.

Last edited by GeminiRage (2016-11-03 00:46:48)


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#218 2016-11-03 01:42:10

TheDarkSlayer
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Yeah, I know the stats of the Three Fairies. I just made up that chart as potential stat spreads because you said yourself the Three Fairies are like the Three Monkeys in Gen 5. The Three Monkeys all had the same base stat spread and totals btw.

Regarding their final form base stats, I do have a few suggestions.

Here's their stat spread originally.

EX
Name: EStar S/ELunachild/ESunnymilk
HP:     65       85          100
ATK:    60       55          60
DEF:    95       90          90
SPD:    75       110         90
SP.ATK: 95       110         80
SP.DEF: 110      60          85
BST:    500      510         505

And here are my suggested stats.

EX
Name: EStar S/ELunachild/ESunnymilk
HP:     85       85          100
ATK:    50       55          50
DEF:    110      75          90
SPD:    65       110         90
SP.ATK: 90       110         90
SP.DEF: 110      75          90
BST:    510      510         510

All three of them have low base Attack stats, with Luna Child having the highest at base 55. Sunnymilk will be a balance between the other two, having good offensive and defensive stats. As you've said, Sunnymilk has a niche with her signature move, so having a higher base Special Attack may benefit her. Luna's stats are almost the same except I balanced out her Defense and Special Defense, making her the weakest defensively. This means she'll now be able to take both Physical and Special hits at around the same rate instead of one over the other like before. I adjusted Star S's HP, Defense, Speed, and Special Attack a bit to make her a bit more balanced on both defenses. She'll end up being the slowest out of the three, but it's backed up by her sub-par Special Attack and moderately good bulk, making her a decent tank.

Now, regarding Luna Dial and Sakuya. It's a nice move, and I do like Sakuya. However, her typing is horrendous. While it does have 7 resistances (8 if you count Fairy for Gen 6) and one immunity, it's crippled by three weaknesses, two of them being a 4* weakness in Fire and Fighting. Common Fire and Fighting types in Touhoumon include Meiling, Suika, Yuugi, Yuki, Orin, Sunnymilk, to name a few. In your movechanges.txt, it says Luna Dial has 5 PP, 30 BP, and 70 accuracy. Boost it up to 80% Accuracy or change it if it's an error on the .txt file, boost its PP to 10 so it can be used a bit more, and boost its power to 40 to give it a bit more hitting power. Even with that 100% Freeze Hax, Luna Dial's niche is kinda limited in Gen 2 due to the lack of Concentrate, one of Sakuya's abilities in Gen 3. I believe the effects from what I can remember are that it boosts your move's accuracy by 30%. I think 80% accuracy is perfect, since it'll be the same as Hydro Pump. You just gotta fix it if it's an error in game or with the .txt file. I think Luna Dial's base accuracy was either 70 or 75 in Gen 3, giving it either 91% accuracy (70*1.3=91) or 97.5% (75*1.3). In a way, it's kinda like a lower accuracy version of Nuzzle in X/Y and ORAS. Regarding her typing though, if Sakuya got access to Spikes like her PC-98 Sister Yumeko did, then that would give her a better defensive role.

I can imagine a defensive set such as this.

Sakuya @ Leftovers

-Luna Dial
-Toxic
-Spikes
-Sculpture

Luna Dial for 100% Freeze Hax. Spikes are the only entry hazards in Gen 2 and with many defensive Pokemon getting access to it, I think Sakuya deserves this move as well. Toxic allows you to set up a status on an opponent's Pokemon, and Sculpture is there for STAB and something to attack with.

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-11-03 01:53:59)

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#219 2016-11-03 03:25:18

Mmmmmm
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

You would patch a vanilla version of Silver, not Gold, Dewott.

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#220 2016-11-03 05:03:27

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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

I only mentioned "three monkeys" in terms of how they develop and may be treated by the player, not in terms of their statistics.  Again, I have no desire to change their current stat spreads and roles.  I viewed them in such a way that you get them early on, they're nice at what they do, but as soon as you find someone you like better from their type role, you'll swap them out.

Luna Dial has been a point of contention for many Touhoumon players when it comes to hack balancing, simply because of Freeze being a very powerful status (essentially being Sleep without the break chance increasing every turn).  5PP was likely what the move originally had in the first place to prevent it from being abused too heavily, and the 1.8 versions nerfed the base accuracy on it down to 55%!  Granted, Sakuya still has her accuracy-boosting ability to offset this (assuming the player didn't wind up with her other ability), but you can tell the existence of this move hasn't been greeted with the most enthusiasm from balance fanatics.

Regarding her weaknesses (which by the way, she only has a 4x fire weakness in my version, Ice negates her ground weakness and Steel is neutral to Fighting, though steel lost quite a few resistances and the poison immunity)... the same can be said of anyone else with 4x weaknesses; would you seriously keep Marisa in against a Ground-type known to possess Earthquake?  Would you leave Utsuho in against someone with Rock Slide?  Or Suwako against any Tohomon carrying grass-type moves?  Unless you're quite overleveled and confident they can defeat their opponents before they get their next move, the answer would be no and you should switch Tohomon immediately.

@Dishwasher Dewott: If you read the first post, you'd know this hack is based on the Silver version.  Also worth noting the latest version of this hack now comes with quick instructions in the readme.txt on how to apply this patch.


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#221 2016-11-03 15:10:59

TheDarkSlayer
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

I remember you did say you might tweak their EX form stats so I thought I could suggest a few stats.

GeminiRage wrote:

I may tweak the EX form stats a bit, to put the BSTs at an equal 500, but do not expect me to shift their roles.

Here was my original suggestion.

EX
Name: EStar S/ELunachild/ESunnymilk
HP:     85       85          100
ATK:    50       55          50
DEF:    110      75          90
SPD:    65       110         90
SP.ATK: 90       110         90
SP.DEF: 110      75          90
BST:    510      510         510

And here's my redo of the stats, keeping their respective roles as a Bulky Tank (Star S.), Fast Attacker (Luna), and a mix of the two (Sunny).

EX
Name: EStar S/ELunachild/ESunnymilk
HP:     85       80          90
ATK:    50       50          50
DEF:    105      75          90
SPD:    65       110         90
SP.ATK: 90       110         90
SP.DEF: 105      75          90
BST:    500      500         500

And I think I made a mistake with the Sakuya weakness thing since I was looking at a regular Pokemon type chart. The Gen 3 Touhoumon 1.5 hacks have a type chart that's similar to the original Pokemon type chart, except Dark is now weak to Steel.

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#222 2016-11-04 01:28:53

TheDarkSlayer
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Seeing that you were able to put in custom sprites for Maribel and ZUN, I have an idea for a future update.

In some versions of the Gen 3 Touhoumon hacks, the Gym Leaders and other important story characters were replaced by Touhou characters. I believe in one of the Emerald hacks, Maxie was replaced with Utsuho and Archie was replaced with Suwako, to go along with LUtsuho, LSuwako, and LKanako (Basically, Utsuho, Suwako, and Kanako with stats on par with most Pokemon Ubers and Legendaries) replacing Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza.

Here's my suggestion regarding the Gym Leaders and which characters they should replace.
-Oak and Elm should remain the same IMHO, but Elm could be Ran and Oak could be Yukari.
-Silver could be replaced with Renko, who plays the role of your rival in the Gen 3 hacks if playing as Maribel.
-Falkner could be replaced with Aya, since Falkner uses Flying types. I think his team was CMystia, CTokiko, and CAya from what I remember.
-Bugsy could be replaced with either Lily White or Daiyousei since unlike in Pokemon GSC, Bugsy uses Lily W, Lily B, and Daiyousei, which aren't Bug types.
-Whitney could be either Tewi or Koishi, since I believe it was one or the other who was her signature 'Mon.
-Morty could be Yuyuko since at around the fourth gym, the difficulty of the game spikes up and with one of the final bosses as a gym leader, it reflects perfectly. I believe that Yuyuko was Morty's signature 'Mon as well.
-Chuck could be either Suika or Yuugi due to the fact that Suika and Yuugi are both considered brawlers of the Touhou series. There is Bruno to consider as well, who uses an EYuugi on his team. I think Chuck's team was something along the lines of Sara, Meiling, Suika, and Yuugi.
-Jasmine could either be Keine or Yumeko. I forgot what Jasmine used, but both Keine and Yumeko are Steel types in Touhoumon and that's Jasmine's speciality type. Yumeko could be a bit fitting to give the PC-98 characters some roles in the story.
-Pryce could be Letty since Pryce's signature 'Mon happened to be ELetty.
-Claire is a bit of a tough one for two reasons. She uses four characters from SA, but she's also related to Lance, who's the champion. I would say Utsuho since Utsuho is her signature 'Mon during her battle.
-Will could be replaced with Alice or Satori, who are two Psychic-types he happens to use. I would've said Reisen to match with his signature 'Mon, but Reisen is reserved for someone else.
-Koga could be replaced with Eirin since Eirin is his strongest 'Mon. Plus, I don't think it would be fitting for an Elite Four member to be someone like Chen, Medicine, Hina, Yamame, or Wriggle. Four out of the five are bosses found in Stages 1-2 of their respective Touhou games and Medicine isn't too popular of a character either.
-As I've said, Bruno could be Yuugi or Suika with the same reasons as Chuck. Bear in mind that Bruno does use an EYuugi on his team, but not an ESuika. However, Meiling is another good candidates since Meiling replaces Machamp, Bruno's original signature Pokemon.
-Karen could be either Shinki or Yuuka. While it is undeniable that Remilia and Flandre are strong, I think the position of Elite Four should be held for someone that is an "adult." Yuuka's sadistic nature could fit in with Karen's usage of Dark type Pokemon, while Shinki could possibly reference Yumeko if Yumeko does indeed replace Jasmine. There are also some theories saying that Karen was a dominatrix in Generation 2, which would make Yuuka much more fitting.
-Finally, for Lance, I think Eiki Shiki could be a good replacement for Lance. Eiki is considered one of the strongest and most powerful individuals in Gensokyo and in the Touhou games, and with Lance being considered the strongest Pokemon Trainer of Kanto and Johto, it does seem fitting. However, EShikieiki is only his 3rd strongest 'Mon, being outleveled by his EIku and ETenshi. If you do make this change, I think you should boost EShikieiki's level to Level 62 or something.
-Lt. Surge is the first Gym Leader you fight in Kanto, and being a specialist in Electric types, I think either Nitori or Marisa would be fitting.
-The next Kanto Gym Leader I believe you can fight was Sabrina. Since she is a Psychic-type trainer, I think Patchouli would be fitting for her.
-Erika is up next. Her tag line in one of the Pokemon games happens to be "The Nature-Loving Princess!" I think Kaguya would be fitting for her since Kaguya is also a princess and I do believe Erika uses an EKaguya on her team.
-Janine who now manages the Fuchsia City Gym is also Koga's daughter. To go with that trend, I think Reisen would be a good fit if Koga is replaced by Eirin. Reisen and Eirin have a master-servant and teacher-apprentice relationship as well, which fits the father-daughter relationship of Koga and Janine.
-Good ol' Misty is Kanto's Water-type expert. To go with her Water-type theme, either Komachi or Nitori would be fitting. However, since Misty is known as the "Tomboyish Mermaid," and with ECirno being Ice/Water, Cirno might be a good candidate as well, since her theme song is "Beloved Tomboyish Girl."
-Brock would be either Suika or Tenshi, since I believe it was one or the other that was his signature 'Mon. There's a lack of Rock-types in Touhoumon games tbh.
-Blaine, since he uses Fire-types, should obviously be Mokou.
-Blue/Green/Douche or whatever you want to call him, is a bit of a tough choice. If Oak and Elm remain the same, then I think Blue/Green/Douche should remain the same too. However, if Oak and Elm do get replaced by Yukari and Ran, I think Blue/Green/Douche should be replaced with Rinnosuke or Reimu. The only problem I see with Rinnosuke is that he would use himself as his signature 'Mon. As you've said, Rinnosuke does exist in the game, but he's currently unavailable. If Lt. Surge will be Marisa, then Reimu might be fitting for Blue/Green/Douche, so you fight one of the two main protagonists when you first enter Kanto and the other one towards the end of your Kanto adventure.

Oh and speaking about music, have you heard this version of Love Colored Master Spark?
It's a remix between Love Colored Master Spark and the Gen 2 Kanto Trainer Battle Theme
If you played any of the Gen 3 hacks, which I'm assuming you have, you'll know that Love Colored Master Spark was remixed with the FRLG Trainer Battle Theme.

Last edited by TheDarkSlayer (2016-11-04 01:39:01)

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#223 2016-11-04 04:23:21

GeminiRage
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Registered: 2012-04-04
Post 88/93

Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Character replacements at this point would be only if I decided to really go to those lengths...which at the moment I have higher priorities.

As for that song you linked... yikes, leave my ears alone!  As much as I am looking forward to having music ported over for my hack, I at least want some decent quality to it that doesn't make the players want to turn the sound off.  I recall seeing a couple Touhou songs ported in another thread, a few of which I may actually use in the hack.

I need to get around to compiling my request, I never did list which songs I wanted so I've been having to go back through Touhou songs to decide which ones I'd like to see ported.


Author of Touhoumon: Ordinary Version

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#224 2016-11-04 19:18:40

TheDarkSlayer
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From: United States
Registered: 2016-10-30
Post 11/19
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

I think you're gonna like this music remix and channel. Heck, I kinda hope you'll consider using this.

It's basically a remix between some of Reimu's battle themes with Lance and Red's theme from HGSS.

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#225 2016-11-04 22:29:34

Mmmmmm
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From: West Virginia
Registered: 2015-05-17
Post 150/261

Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Since the topic of music is coming up, I'd like to hear from GeminiRage which they would prefer as a soundtrack: would it be better to have Touhou melodies mixed into songs already in GSC, or to fully port songs from Touhou in their original state? i.e. which would be better, a less ear-rapey version of that Love-Colored Magic/Kanto Trainer Battle mix, or just porting the original Love-Colored Magic to GSC's audio format?

I'm still not ready to work on porting songs, but I'd like to know the answer to this question so I can consider what the general theme of the music would be. Having some songs arranged like the former option mixed with songs arranged like the latter option would be inconsistent.

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