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’Cause all games were better on the GBC

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#76 2012-12-04 01:44:07

N9NTH
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Hi,
I noticed that Wriggle, who normally learns Sonicboom through leveling up, isn't compatible with TM43 (Sonicboom). IO's Touhoudex confirms this. Was this intentional, or a result of moving around TMs from the original game? It's bothering me a bit because I didn't notice that Sonicboom has changed to a 70 base power bug-type, I didn't get my Wriggle to learn it and now I'm stuck with a (totally useless so far) bug Touhou without any bug-type moves until level 55.
Thanks for all your hard work on this hack!

P.S. Would it be considered too spoiler-ish if you revealed how/where to acquire a Reimu? I need a better flying-type.

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#77 2012-12-04 15:09:06

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

@comet: I'll look into that as soon as possible.

@N9NTH: Yeah, that's probably what happened.  Also, since I've been working on compiling the locations table, on top of the demo having been out for some time now, I feel it's okay to start revealing locations upon request now.

You can currently find Chibi Reimu at the National Park.  Any time of day, but she's a 1% encounter rate.

Last edited by GeminiRage (2012-12-04 15:11:10)


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#78 2012-12-05 16:30:57

Wrulfy
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Registered: 2012-11-17
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

headbutt trees...

¿How I didn't think on that?

well, lot of thanks, now I can full their spaces in the dex.

i don't know about special headbutt trees in GSC, gonna search about it.

I note some more anomalies:
minoriko lears sweet scent at 50 instead of flail
Ex Rikako(corsola) appears in olivine city fishing with good rood (fishing bug again, lol.)
Shinki says at the .txt that evolves at Lv40. Mine evolved at 48.


Also, some moves looks unedid, but the move changes.txt says the opposite. like fly or submission.

hope you can finish the hack soon!


Currently working on Carmine Red Romhack

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#79 2012-12-05 18:31:13

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Chibi Shinki is meant to evolve at LV48.  That was IO's fault. *fixes*
EDIT: It also said Chibi Kanako evolves at LV30, but she's really meant to evolve at LV28.

Completely forgot about changing Corsola.  Such a forgettable Pokemon that I've never known anyone to use, I probably didn't even try to look for its hex value in the table or something XD

Noted and fixed the moves.  I also looked over the other moves mentioned in the .txt and fixed those too.

Last edited by GeminiRage (2012-12-05 22:17:35)


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#80 2012-12-17 13:57:44

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

The wait is over!

I have just uploaded the latest update for Touhoumon: Ordinary Version, which features a revised Kanto!  The way to Indigo Plateau and the Elite Four are finally open, and you can even take on the Kanto Gyms afterwards!  This patch also includes the Johto roamers, several updated area encounters, and many other small changes and fixes.  You can download the latest update on the first page as usual.


So with Kanto released, this hack is nearly done in terms of content.  What remains to be done?

-ZUN.  Touhou fans, you know who he is.  Here, he will be a trainer that take Red's place in Silver Cave.  He will boast a very powerful team that should only be taken on by the most dedicated players.
-Learned move revsion.  I may eventually look over the learned move tables someday.  Making small changes every patch is never fun when I have to repoint multiple entries to accomodate an added or removed move.  I'll do all the revision in a single update when the time comes.
-Egg move revision Same as above.  There are a lot of egg moves that are just wasting space due to being TM moves, an oversight I made.  Meanwhile, there are several others I would probably add.
-Music.  I'm looking for people experienced in music composition to make custom tracks for this hack.
-Dialog Flavoring. In it's current state, the dialog is only slightly changed from the original Pokemon Silver.  With the major content out of the way, I intend to do a more thorough job of giving this hack a Touhou flavor.  Initially, I was kind of hesistant to do too much due to my inexperience with script editing (I broke my hack several times in the early weeks LOL), but now I feel more confident about this.
-Tileset/GFX editing Again, for that Touhou flavor.  I was hoping I would get some help in this while I was busy with the actual content, but whatever.

In particular, I came across what appeared to be the sprites used for the credits borders in Tile Layer Pro.  They look to be uncompressed, which gives me an idea for a project: I'd like for some spriters to create three frames of 32x32 sprites for each of the following characters.
-Suika (Replaces Togepi)
-Yuuka (Replaces Bellossom)
-Marisa (Replaces Elekid)
-Hina (Replaces Sentret.  The spinning one ^_^)
If anyone is interested in trying their hand at this, let me know!

Finally, since this hack isn't really much of a demo/work-in-progress anymore and being that it's almost all done content-wise, I'm also requesting this thread be moved from "Idea Discussion" to "Game Boy (Color) Hacks".

Last edited by GeminiRage (2012-12-17 13:58:14)


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#81 2012-12-17 19:34:19

frostkirin
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Registered: 2012-10-28
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

TM45 Attract -> Morning Sun
Don't even get me started on this one...

I'm actually curious about this one. Arbitrary restriction aside, what didn't you like about attract?

(As an aside, how do you quote a specific person?)

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#82 2012-12-20 01:43:43

Houraisan
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Does Flash still lower accuracy? I haven't seen an accuracy drop from it, but most of the time I was using it I was instantly killing stuff so that may just be my experience. (60 BP Psychic STAB this early..) It sure didn't feel like "50%" but that was probably toned down.

Does Chibi Gengetsu evolve properly? In your documentation it says she evolves at level 30, and there were trainers that had her evolution around level 28, but mine's reached level 45 and still hasn't even attempted to evolve.

Why is the Mugetsu line pink when she wears blue? Did you run out of palettes you could use?

Explosion and Thunderbolt circles seem to be corrupted. I dunno if it's the hack or just my emulator.

Wilds seem to be extremely weak compared to the trainers, or maybe it's just taking too long for first stage evolutions to show up regularly in the wild? Training is a pain, even if the game can be sped up to 3000%. Maybe have more routes with commonplace first stage evolutions earlier in?

jesus christ yumemi stop being on scientists you're a pseudolegendary

youmu does not learn mind's eye until level 48
do not say breeding since that's still only midgame (and earlygame if you count kanto)

Please stop giving things Rock Slide just because it's a TM, mostly because I haven't seen said TM yet. I don't know if that applies to the elemental punches in midgame, but a friend was complaining about those so..

Cut back on MiracleBerry usage a bit. You started throwing them around waaaaay too early, go for single status berries until like the seventh gym or so.

As wonderful as it is to abuse, 85 accuracy Blizzard is absurd.

In fact, Alice in general is absurd - Psychic is GODLY under this type chart and anything that does resist it can't stand up to Ice, and she gets 85% accurate Blizzard as early as Goldenrod.

You really should give Psychic more resists, only Dark and itself resist it. Everything else is hit neutrally or super-effectively. I know you're mostly following the 1.5 JP type chart, but some things really should be changed and Psychic being nearly as broken as it was in RBY is one of them.

Speaking of the type chart, why is Steel not immune to Poison this makes zero sense

Is it at all possible to cut back on the amount of things that run away in the wild? This isn't the Safari Zone. They start appearing far earlier than you get sleep moves, and it's especially frustrating when you're leveling and something runs when you fail to OHKO it.

How does Rin learn Encore? Is it an Egg Move? Those weren't defined in your documentation so I'm really hoping it is..


Anyway, barring this (which admittedly gets nitpicky at times) I'm somehow enjoying this despite my hatred of 1.5 mechanics. It's most likely just the novelty factor and broken Blizzards, though.

Last edited by Houraisan (2012-12-20 01:59:29)

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#83 2012-12-22 11:42:53

Friedenshymne
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Registered: 2012-12-22
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

First of all, I have thoroughly enjoyed this hack so far. I personally have no problems, the only issues so far being the missing/wrong info in the Touhoudex file (which others have pointed out). I just downloaded the update, so we'll see how that goes.

Secondly, I am not a great spriter, but I decided to try and whip some of those credits graphics for you.

yuukasprite.png
suikasprite.png
marisasprite.png
hinasprite.png

Hopefully, these can be used, though I'm not terribly sure... Still, is this the kind of thing you're looking for?

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#84 2012-12-22 14:30:47

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

I did make some small adjustments to the learned moves, I'm guessing you're the one who pointed out that Mugetsu wasn't learning Sweet Kiss?  Yeah, I found that error in her move table.

As for the sprites?  Yeah, those look good for now.  I'll see about inserting them, then tinkering with the palette settings so that they look right.


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#85 2012-12-23 06:50:25

Friedenshymne
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Should be noted that Layla learns Gust at level 44 instead of Razor Wind.

Also, one trainer on Route 14 has a level 6 EKeine and level 29 CSakuya.

Last edited by Friedenshymne (2012-12-23 10:07:08)

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#86 2013-01-02 09:21:28

Moonlapse Vertigo
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Registered: 2012-11-01
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

GeminiRage wrote:

I did make some small adjustments to the learned moves, I'm guessing you're the one who pointed out that Mugetsu wasn't learning Sweet Kiss?  Yeah, I found that error in her move table.

actually, I know I sent you a message about that (though obviously I might not have been the only one, haha)

also I was gonna mention the thunderbolt graphics glitch but Houraisan beat me to it bluh bluh

so basically this post lacks any real content, sorry :c

however I'd like to re-state that you are awesome for doing this!

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#87 2013-01-10 09:34:48

trancehime
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Very nice hack that I've been playing as of late, though I do have some concerns.

Firstly, the documentation states that CYumemi evolves via Happiness to Yumemi. I've caught my CYumemi at L20, she is now L55 and hasn't shown signs of evolution. Is this a bug, or have I done something wrong?

Secondly, Tewi evolved into Tei at L36.

Thirdly, I notice that a lot of the Touhoumon game are Ice-weak early on. This... can pose some problems especially since a lot of Touhoumon that resist the god-type (Psychic -_-) end up being splattered by Ice. This isn't even factoring in boosted accuracy Blizzard, even Ice Beam can do significant damage and early on (Goldenrod-...) Ice Punch can destroy a lot of things. Of course I took advantage of this and trivialized mid-game grinding by hopping over to the route before the Lake of Rage and did grinding there before taking on Morty, since... Wild Pokemon and Gym Trainers have similar levels to vanilla GSC, but Gym Leaders are most certainly far more competent, creating an unusually jarring disparity. Let's just say I got thrown off guard when I first encountered Clair.

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#88 2013-01-10 12:36:27

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

trancehime wrote:

Very nice hack that I've been playing as of late, though I do have some concerns.

Firstly, the documentation states that CYumemi evolves via Happiness to Yumemi. I've caught my CYumemi at L20, she is now L55 and hasn't shown signs of evolution. Is this a bug, or have I done something wrong?

Secondly, Tewi evolved into Tei at L36.

Those are probably typos.  I'm pretty sure Yumemi also requires Daytime to evolve... something that IO probably neglected to mention, but I will most certainly will with the next update.


Thirdly, I notice that a lot of the Touhoumon game are Ice-weak early on. This... can pose some problems especially since a lot of Touhoumon that resist the god-type (Psychic -_-) end up being splattered by Ice. This isn't even factoring in boosted accuracy Blizzard, even Ice Beam can do significant damage and early on (Goldenrod-...) Ice Punch can destroy a lot of things. Of course I took advantage of this and trivialized mid-game grinding by hopping over to the route before the Lake of Rage and did grinding there before taking on Morty, since... Wild Pokemon and Gym Trainers have similar levels to vanilla GSC, but Gym Leaders are most certainly far more competent, creating an unusually jarring disparity. Let's just say I got thrown off guard when I first encountered Clair.

Ghost will get a resistance to Psychic in the next update.  I also considered just lowering the base power on the move Psychic a bit simply because so many Psyhics have rather high Sp.ATK stats as it is (Patchouli, Reisen, and Alice come to mind).  Maybe down to 80?

As for the Ice-type... okay.  It is pretty strong early-game when most wild encounters and several trainers use Flying, Grass, and Ground types.  It sort of becomes less useful in the midgame where Fighting/Steel moves become more common and resistant types (Waters, Steels, other Ices) are being used more, but then when you get to the lategame, the Flying types seem to become more common again, and that's where Ice begins to become really strong again.

Then you mentioned the moves Ice Beam and Blizzard, and I think the real issue is just move accessibility; namely, a lot of Touhoumon just seem to learn strong moves a little too early, or just have access to them via TMs too early.  The elemental punches in particular seem to be a biggie simply because a lot of Touhoumon can learn them compared to Pokemon in the original game (Really, by Goldenrod City, only Abra, Cyndaquil, and Totodile are worth teaching punches to). 

Normal Trainers have somewhat higher levels than they did in vanilla.  The Gym Leaders are certainly tough, and meant to present a challenge.  Currently, I am looking to adjust some levels and possibly movesets on the leaders, and I've been trying to get feedback on which ones have been the most problematic to players.  Unfortunately, I get varied results: for example, some players found Morty to be a good challenge, while others thought he was too difficult.  Sometimes, it's hard to tell if the player is really using every trick they can to win (Equipping berries, using stat boosts, potions, having a wide type arsenal) when they give me this feedback too.  The game is supposed to present challenge, I'm just trying to find that right balance between fun and challenge, which is not easy to accomplish in a hack where nearly everyone has the potential to become very powerful if you commit to her (The GBA hacks were similar in this regard, you could be stomping left and right or just getting wrecked by tough setups).



On another note, I've considered relocating several encounters to be Kanto-exclusives, simply to have new stuff to find there instead of the grass just being spots to grind at.  While some players like the idea of being able to choose from a wide variety when building teams compared GSC (Sneasel says Hi near the end of the game), others find it sort of defeats some of Kanto's purpose, which was to offer new finds for the player.


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#89 2013-01-10 12:46:41

trancehime
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Well, thing is, I was more pointing out level disparity rather than the actual build and kit of each individual Gym Leader, again I was not expecting Clair to be having a Lv47 EUtsuho when her trainers were in the high 30s and very low 40s. I ended up actually not really grinding much at all past that spur-of-the-moment training montage I had at Morty and found the rest of the hack so far pretty doable.

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#90 2013-01-10 13:39:21

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Oh, that.  Yeah, I was going to reduce her levels a bit anyways, probably down to 42-45

Last edited by GeminiRage (2013-01-10 13:39:44)


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#91 2013-01-11 14:42:13

trancehime
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Venturing in Kanto I found some funny things:

1. Flying to Vermillion takes you to Celadon; it seems to be impossible to reach Vermillion via Flying, you must walk. This is really not a big deal in the grand scheme of things considering how easy travel is in general, just found it interesting.

2. The PokeFan in Route 14 (PokeFan Carter) has a L65 EReimu, seems legit............ Then has a L29 CSakuya and a L6 EKeine. Welp! Also, his post-battle text (in the overworld) randomly garbles the "well" in "well-balanced" to "xxxl-balanced." An oopsie in the script?

3. Tried Lt. Surge after enjoying the sights of Kanto; once again noticed level disparity - Lt. Surge had L58 to L60 Touhoumon, while his trainers had low 50's. Not that this was a problem, since I had EYamame steamroll the entire gym >_>

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#92 2013-01-11 15:06:29

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

I log in to comment and something else and I keep seeing these replies...

-I knew about the Fly bug from someone else.  I'm also pretty sure I've found the fix for it too.
-Okay, this was the info I needed.  Someone mentioned a trainer had an underleveled Tohomon, they just didn't specify exactly which one.
-The level disparity is more or less to reduce the experience rewards.   Assuming you defeated Lance, Lt. Surge should be mildly challenging at best.

The level disparities are bigger here simply to accomodate the rather high EV caps in GSC.  If there's one thing I noticed when fighting the Elite Four, it's that even though I was only using a high-40s team, they were still statistically superior compared to most of the opponents.  Even if an opponent has several levels above your Tohomon, you can still match them quite easily simply due to all the EVs that have built up over several levels of training them up throughout the game.  You will often find yourself outspeeding things that would otherwise be equal (or faster) than your own Tohomon, unless they happen to have Quick Claws that also proc against you (which isn't too often, and it's pretty obvious when it does).

Also keep in mind that at higher levels, the difference one level makes is very small compared to how it was at lower levels.  A LV10 Chibi Tokiko is significantly stronger than a LV9, but a LV71 is only slightly stronger than a LV70.



On the other hand, the levels do kinda get quite high in later Kanto, but that's more due to the fact it's still a bit incomplete at the moment, and I'm trying to decide on a proper level curve for the final version of it.  As in, try to find out how strong is too strong, and try to curve it based on that feedback.


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#93 2013-01-14 11:56:01

Zarator
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Registered: 2012-09-30
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Hello, I was playing your hack and it is fantastic!^^ I was wondering if you had a sprite sheet with the mons you used in the hack, though... if so, could you post it please? Thanks!

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#94 2013-01-16 12:43:50

cheren234
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

New member here! I have a few questions:
1. What level does your starter evolve at?
2. Where can you find CWriggle?
3.How far does this hack go?
by the way, this is one AWESOME hack.

EDIT: Questions Answered! found them in thread and Read Me. silly me. didn't bother to read the TohoDex.

Last edited by cheren234 (2013-01-16 12:51:34)

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#95 2013-01-16 13:03:37

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

cheren234 wrote:

New member here! I have a few questions:
1. What level does your starter evolve at?
2. Where can you find CWriggle?
3.How far does this hack go?
by the way, this is one AWESOME hack.

1. The starters evolve at LV18 into their normal forms, and again at LV36 into their EX forms.
2. You can find CWriggle at Route 30 and Ilex Forest.  Only at Night, though.  She appears in a couple other spots too I believe, just remember she's only encountered at night.
3. This hack goes all the way up to the Kanto Gyms.  The only thing that's not set up at this moment is Red.  I've got something planned for him soon enough.


I've also been reworking several level-up movelists to better balance some Touhoumon.  What has already been decided:

Sunnymilk, Lunachild, Star Sapphire, Minoriko, Shizuha
Will learn their moves much sooner than they used to, to make them more usable.  For example, SunnyMilk will learn Flame Wheel, Lunachild Spark, and Star Sapphire Bubblebeam at LV18 as opposed to... what I think used to be LV24?  Yeah, they were pretty awful in that state, especially if you wanted to evolve them in a hurry.

Alice, Cirno, and Yuki
Will have several of their offensive moves learned at later levels than before to reduce their early/mid-game dominance.  For example, Cirno used to learn Ice Punch at LV20, now she needs LV25 to learn it, and Ice Beam was moved up from LV30 to LV40.  Other moves were shifted down the list.


I'll probably release the update very soon.  It will also contain several fixes to aforementioned bugs. and a few text cleanups.

Last edited by GeminiRage (2013-01-16 13:05:47)


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#96 2013-01-18 04:09:21

cheren234
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

i JUST realized something: THIS version of Touhoumon actually has Dex entries! the GBA version that i play doesn't. not that i don't like it or anything, i just wish that it has actual Tohodex entries like yours. anyway, i'm at Bugsy and i keep on getting my butt kicked. is it bad that i only have 1 really high level Touhoumon? i'm waiting for the EXP.Share or whatever, but i can't remember where i get it. so basically the rest of my party is level 10 or lower. NOT GOOD. what do i do!?!?! i already battled every trainer EXCEPT for my rival. i'm kinda...scared to do that. so what can i do to beat Bugsy? my ONE Fire-Type Touhoumon is WAY too low-level to take Bugsy on. Level 13, i think? my starter is level 20. how sad...

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#97 2013-01-18 04:56:22

GeminiRage
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

If your starter is LV20, you should be fine, unless that starter was Ran... then you might have a problem there, since she's weak to Bugsy's Touhoumon.  If you did pick Ran as your starter, there are counters out there who can help a lot.

-Medicine is the best counter to Daiyousei.  4x resistance to Razor Leaf, and isn't really bothered by Cut.  She'll probably use Safeguard and Smile to weaken you, but Acid should do her in before she can really do much to Medicine.  The Flying-types like Mystia and Aya also work pretty well, just be wary of those criticals.
-Lily White is quite bulky and uses Swift, but that's pretty much all she can do.  Icy Wind only hurts if it's supereffective.  The Fighting-type Sara works best against her, but if you managed to catch and train a Parsee, you can just sort of stall her back and eventually come out on top (You can even use Thief to steal her Berry!).
-Lily Black is quick and strong, but very frail and easily defeated if you can survive her attacks.  Again, Sara can do this and come out victorious, but if you don't have her, anyone who can survive her Pursuit and Steel moves (they rarely 1HKO unless you're way under her level) should be able to hit back for good damage at least.


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#98 2013-01-18 09:48:44

virus95x
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

Can be found in jar file here:http://peperonity.com/go/sites/mview/ra … 67B8.cdb01

overall good job, I have ran and it was very hard to beat ghost type pokemons, took me ages and didn't have good moves expect flash-.-... so now I'm good and almost going into kanto:)

Last edited by virus95x (2013-01-18 09:49:10)

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#99 2013-01-18 10:15:18

y0r124
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

virus95x wrote:

Can be found in jar file here:http://peperonity.com/go/sites/mview/ra … 67B8.cdb01

overall good job, I have ran and it was very hard to beat ghost type pokemons, took me ages and didn't have good moves expect flash-.-... so now I'm good and almost going into kanto:)

Wow thanks I've searching this around .-.

Btw GeminiRage, Your hack is awesome :D

Last edited by y0r124 (2013-01-18 10:16:00)


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#100 2013-01-19 00:38:10

cheren234
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Re: Touhoumon: Ordinary Version (I'm done with this...read my last post)

GeminiRage wrote:

If your starter is LV20, you should be fine, unless that starter was Ran... then you might have a problem there, since she's weak to Bugsy's Touhoumon.  If you did pick Ran as your starter, there are counters out there who can help a lot.

-Medicine is the best counter to Daiyousei.  4x resistance to Razor Leaf, and isn't really bothered by Cut.  She'll probably use Safeguard and Smile to weaken you, but Acid should do her in before she can really do much to Medicine.  The Flying-types like Mystia and Aya also work pretty well, just be wary of those criticals.
-Lily White is quite bulky and uses Swift, but that's pretty much all she can do.  Icy Wind only hurts if it's supereffective.  The Fighting-type Sara works best against her, but if you managed to catch and train a Parsee, you can just sort of stall her back and eventually come out on top (You can even use Thief to steal her Berry!).
-Lily Black is quick and strong, but very frail and easily defeated if you can survive her attacks.  Again, Sara can do this and come out victorious, but if you don't have her, anyone who can survive her Pursuit and Steel moves (they rarely 1HKO unless you're way under her level) should be able to hit back for good damage at least.

it was Ran. so i'm screwed? i'm leveling up as fast as possible, but it's kinda hard since i already defeated every one of the trainers w/ Ran. dang. i've been clobbered by Bugsy so many times i've lost count. i THINK i have a CMedicine. No, it's not evolved, but i'm trying. i think the only one of my Touhoumon that's evolved is Ran. sad, right?

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