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’Cause all games were better on the GBC

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#1 2011-12-28 21:22:50

Poketto...
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Registered: 2011-12-28
Post 2/39

Any one thought of this?

So I've been looking through various wikis and boards trying to come up with ideas for a decent hack and stumbled across this picture
428px-MicroGroup_Game_Review_Volume_14.jpg

As most gen 1&2 hackers know the old games have alot of unsed data, maps, and such. Has anyone thought of or tried making a hack using gamefreaks beta pokemon/trainers?

Would "secrets and rumors" fit this category?

Last edited by Poketto... (2011-12-28 21:23:30)

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#2 2011-12-28 21:33:55

399/703

Re: Any one thought of this?

Poketto... wrote:

As most gen 1&2 hackers know the old games have alot of unsed data, maps, and such. Has anyone thought of or tried making a hack using gamefreaks beta pokemon/trainers?

I’ve seen hacks like this one, which restores some of the beta maps. There’s no leftover trainer information that I know of, though, but could lead to some interesting storytelling.

#3 2011-12-28 21:48:48

Poketto...
Member
Registered: 2011-12-28
Post 4/39

Re: Any one thought of this?

IIMarckus wrote:

There’s no leftover trainer information that I know of, though, but could lead to some interesting storytelling.

I'm sure there isn't any beta trainer sprites on the game but there are pictures. One would have to just make there own custom sprites and insert them into the game.

Also I had an idea for a hack it would involve gamefreaks other creations but I wasn't sure if it would have that "pokemon feel" to it afterwards.

Example one part of the hack would have the pokemon trainer meet up with Pulseman and have to stop Doc Waruyama.(look up Pulseman on Wiki)
- The trainer would use pulseman like a pokemon and battle

Characters from Bushi Seiryuden and Jelly Boy would make cameo apperences too. However the storys of these two games don't really fit as the first one takes place in a sort of feudal japan era and jelly boy is similar to kirby.

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#4 2011-12-28 22:31:24

Mateo
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From: The Sims 4
Registered: 2009-11-25
Post 1,139/3,578

Re: Any one thought of this?

I remember Red version has the beta class of "CHIEF" but it still uses the Scientist sprite and doesn't have anything special. And the closest to a beta trainer other than that would be the battle with Professor Oak.

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#5 2011-12-28 22:48:53

tekcoR
Member
From: Celadon City
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 95/165

Re: Any one thought of this?

There was also this project.
I'm really interested in Beta material and it's a shame that nobody has uploaded an Beta version, though there is at least one out there (saw a Beta cartridge at japanese Yahoo Auctions). I think with sites like this and Unseen64 we could get enough material for a minor beta hack.
RBY Beta is exciting as well. It seems like Pokemon wasn't meant to be a whole monster collecting game at first, early it was more like a rpg/adventure game with Pokemon used for special reasons (HM-style). (link)


Cya

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#6 2011-12-28 23:15:51

Torchickens
Member
Registered: 2011-01-02
Post 8/47

Re: Any one thought of this?

IIMarckus wrote:
Poketto... wrote:

As most gen 1&2 hackers know the old games have alot of unsed data, maps, and such. Has anyone thought of or tried making a hack using gamefreaks beta pokemon/trainers?

I’ve seen hacks like this one, which restores some of the beta maps. There’s no leftover trainer information that I know of, though, but could lead to some interesting storytelling.

Though as we know, there is the unused roster data associated with Pokémon Prof, which only Oak on the introductory screen uses and the unused Trainer class Chief (interesting to note, there was an older design for the Pokémon Center Nurse, and Game Freak remarked in their blog it was more reminiscent of Officer Jenny). It would be interesting if Oak was say implemented in a hack as an additional Trainer like Red after the Pokémon League. Other than that, there are the unused roster data in Gold/Silver, but I only know of Cal's unused rosters (level 10) and (level 30) starters.


Poketto... wrote:
IIMarckus wrote:

There’s no leftover trainer information that I know of, though, but could lead to some interesting storytelling.

I'm sure there isn't any beta trainer sprites on the game but there are pictures. One would have to just make there own custom sprites and insert them into the game.

Also I had an idea for a hack it would involve gamefreaks other creations but I wasn't sure if it would have that "pokemon feel" to it afterwards.

Example one part of the hack would have the pokemon trainer meet up with Pulseman and have to stop Doc Waruyama.(look up Pulseman on Wiki)
- The trainer would use pulseman like a pokemon and battle

Characters from Bushi Seiryuden and Jelly Boy would make cameo apperences too. However the storys of these two games don't really fit as the first one takes place in a sort of feudal japan era and jelly boy is similar to kirby.

As you may be already aware the front cover of the book "Satoshi Tajiri: The Man Who Created Pokémon" featured Pulseman on the front cover with Pikachu. These books, and others e.g. Game Freak – Asobi no Sekai Hyoujun o Nurikaeru Creative Shuudan,  Satoshi Tajiri: New Game Design had information about Game Freak's early history in Japanese and some pages had information about early Capsule Monster designs. It's interesting that you should mention Bushi Seiryuden. I believe that the unused track in Pokémon Yellow is a reference to the battle with Madake, because they sound pretty similar. I actually tried tweeting Junichi Masuda about it, he did reply but I don't know if he could understand me, (I first tweeted him in broken Japanese), and he replied in Japanese to ask me something and now I feel bad about it.

I have another idea for a Trainer; except for the two Trainers that appeared on the front page of MicroGroup Game Review (they supposedly appeared on a pamphlet as well). Early in Pocket Monsters 2's development, you were supposedly supposed to have an older brother; as mentioned in an old magazine]; well maybe in a hack the older brother (whatever he might look like) could replace your rival.

Coming back to Capsule Monsters, Glitterberri recently translated a 1997 interview] found on Game Staff Association Japan and Satoshi Tajiri remarked that there were "over 200 Pokémon designs" for Generation I, and in fact some of the Capsule Monsters like Papyō (211) were annotated with numbers larger than 150 or 190. Strangely enough, some of them may have been references to other things or games, for example the Gorillaimo design might have been a reference to Ape Inc., because Creatures (Inc.) was the successor to Ape (but that's overly speculating things).

The interview said there were over 350 Pokémon designs by the time Game Freak were ready for Generation II, so some of them might have been newer Pokémon, or scrapped designs like Honoguma and Kurusu (that actually appeared as starters in the Nintendo Spaceworld 1997 demo, and possibly a few like Animon and Eleking that only had their names revealed in a promotional video for the Pokédex. Although they could have been prototype names). I have been searching for some of these names.  Alternatively, some may have even been based on scrapped designs from Generation I, because an old sprite sheet was recently uncovered which says in Japanese "new designs for Pokémon 2". There were prototype designs for Pokémon like Dragonair and Poliwag, and some like Poliwrath and Weedle's evolutions (Kasanagi and its evolution) looked completely different.

There has been a sudden interest in things like this recently, and a couple of users on Bulbagarden (Silktree, Ash Pokemaster, etc.) and this blog (though there are a few faults) are actively digging for old information to the point that it's giving me a headache trying to read it all D:. Before that, there was Celebi23's analysis of the Nintendo Spaceworld 1997 demo, which is a good read for ideas.

(Edit: Got Ninja'd)

@TekcoR That's interesting, do you happen to know which prototype it was? I know that there were a few demos of Pokémon Gold and Silver/Pocket Monsters 2, such as Spaceworld 1997, 1998 and the World Hobby Fair demo, but then there are the 'not for resale' demos, that I once had mistaken for a prototype.

Last edited by Torchickens (2011-12-28 23:27:32)

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#7 2011-12-29 02:07:45

Poketto...
Member
Registered: 2011-12-28
Post 6/39

Re: Any one thought of this?

Interesting I also read and saw that Pulseman's Volteccer attack is similar to Volt Tackle, which gave me a scenario.
-upon completing the pulseman sidequest in the hack he can teach your pikachu the move volt tackle.
Also the way Rotom appears through the televsion and Pulseman does.

Things that could be added into the hack
- the fire pikachu thing.(would fit in with marill and pikachu)
- celebii time travel
- beta pokemon
- etc (feel free to give ideas)

There are monster designs in Bushi Seiryuden, maybe one could classify them as pokemon.(or POKE-fie them).


Also I would have prefered a advancewars/pokemon mash up rather than on with nobunagas ambition. Anyone else agree? But technically it does make the pokemon seem more realistic (being used to wage war/killing each other).

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#8 2011-12-29 02:46:27

Torchickens
Member
Registered: 2011-01-02
Post 9/47

Re: Any one thought of this?

In fact, the Japanese name of Volt Tackle is also ボルテッカー (Volteccer), and Pulseman was born in the computer Saint Ann (サント アンヌ), which happens to be the Japanese name of S.S. Anne. Bulbapedia also lists some more speculative similarities.

Perhaps the character Wokuu (ヲクウ) from BUSHI: Seiryuuden may have been an early inspiration for Victini because Wokuu and Victini share the same ears and are both red/yellow?

581959_21845_front.jpg20100725000234!494Victini.png

I haven't looked into Game Freak's other games, but I've noticed that there are similarities in the art styles in games like Click Medic as well, and in the game Drill Dozer (although it was released after Generation I and II) many of the sound effects are re-used from Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire. (Edit: There was also an unused, and revamped Quinty/Mendel Palace sprite of the sumo enemies within Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire)

Last edited by Torchickens (2011-12-29 02:54:17)

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#9 2011-12-29 02:56:16

404/703

Re: Any one thought of this?

Torchickens wrote:

In fact, the Japanese name of Volt Tackle is also ボルテッカー (Volteccer), and Pulseman was born in the computer Saint Ann (サント アンヌ), which happens to be the Japanese name of S.S. Anne. Bulbapedia also lists some more speculative similarities.

Perhaps the character Wokuu (ヲクウ) from BUSHI: Seiryuuden may have been an early inspiration for Victini because Wokuu and Victini share the same ears and are both red/yellow?

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bi … _front.jpghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload … ictini.png

I haven't looked into Game Freak's other games, but I've noticed that there are similarities in the art styles in games like Click Medic as well, and in the game Drill Dozer (although it was released after Generation I and II) many of the sound effects are re-used from Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire.

In Ruby and Sapphire, there’s a NPC hidden outside the ring during contests. He’s actually a sumo wrestler from Game Freak’s Mendel Palace for the NES. (Play it. It’s really fun!)

And, of course, in Pokémon Red, Copycat is playing Mario & Wario (another Game Freak game) on her SNES.

#10 2011-12-29 03:06:22

Poketto...
Member
Registered: 2011-12-28
Post 7/39

Re: Any one thought of this?

I'm surprised they haven't made a game that has all there characters in it. Something like Itadaki Street maybe.

Maybe I'd just make a red/blue hack and call it Capsule monsters. Wouldn't require much scripting more sprite editing in my opinion. Seems like an easy hack, nothing to complicated mostly for looks not gameplay.

Also how could I forget about the ninten/pokemon trainer and giegue/mewtwo similarites. Because Creatures used to be Ape Inc.

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#11 2011-12-29 19:36:46

Torchickens
Member
Registered: 2011-01-02
Post 10/47

Re: Any one thought of this?

IIMarckus wrote:
Torchickens wrote:

In fact, the Japanese name of Volt Tackle is also ボルテッカー (Volteccer), and Pulseman was born in the computer Saint Ann (サント アンヌ), which happens to be the Japanese name of S.S. Anne. Bulbapedia also lists some more speculative similarities.

Perhaps the character Wokuu (ヲクウ) from BUSHI: Seiryuuden may have been an early inspiration for Victini because Wokuu and Victini share the same ears and are both red/yellow?

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bi … _front.jpghttp://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload … ictini.png

I haven't looked into Game Freak's other games, but I've noticed that there are similarities in the art styles in games like Click Medic as well, and in the game Drill Dozer (although it was released after Generation I and II) many of the sound effects are re-used from Pokémon Ruby and Sapphire.

In Ruby and Sapphire, there’s a NPC hidden outside the ring during contests. He’s actually a sumo wrestler from Game Freak’s Mendel Palace for the NES. (Play it. It’s really fun!)

And, of course, in Pokémon Red, Copycat is playing Mario & Wario (another Game Freak game) on her SNES.

I never realised that he was actually used in contests! Thanks for that. :)

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#12 2012-02-15 05:01:59

ElectrikeInc
Member
Registered: 2012-02-14
Post 6/120

Re: Any one thought of this?

I have been wanting to do something like this for a while, with the Johto beta starters Kurusu, Happa and Honoguma as well as the beta versions of Girafarig, Marill and Qwilfish. I don't know how to do something like that, though, so I'm glad someone else thought of it. If it helps, these are them:
Alpha_bukuu.png Buku (Qwilfish)
Alpha_kirinriki.png Kirinriki (Girafarig)
Alpha_mariru.png Mariru (Marill)
Alpha_happa.png Happa (Chikorita)
Alpha_honouguma.png Honoguma (Cyndaquil)
Alpha_kurusu.png Kurusu (Totodile)
Sadly, the starters have no evolutions. That might be a problem, unless you make Bayleef, Meganium, Quilava, Typhlosion, Crocanaw and Feraligatr. I heard on Bulbapedia that Happa, Honoguma and Kurusu were the starters in the Japanese G/S betas. The images I used are from Bulbapedia, but are most likely copyright Pokemon.

Last edited by ElectrikeInc (2012-02-16 00:54:50)


I haven't been on this site for a very long time. Sorry about that! >.<
I am probably not going to get very far in the ROM projects that I've started, at least until I get more experience hacking, so I apologize.

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#13 2012-02-15 20:59:40

Torchickens
Member
Registered: 2011-01-02
Post 17/47

Re: Any one thought of this?

ElectrikeInc wrote:

Sadly, the starters have no evolutions. That might be a problem, unless you make Bayleef, Meganium, Quilava, Typhlosion, Crocanaw and Feraligatr. I heard on Bulbapedia that Happa, Honoguma and Kurusu were the starters in the Japanese G/S betas. The images I used are from Bulbapedia, but are most likely copyright Pokemon.

They were apparently from the Nintendo Spaceworld 1997 demo. According to Celebi23's collection of various first/second person accounts of the events, players would be assigned a random starter Pokémon (either Kurusu, Honōguma or Happa) at level 10.

01.gif01.gif19.gif

Last edited by Torchickens (2012-02-15 21:17:52)

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#14 2012-02-16 00:40:00

ElectrikeInc
Member
Registered: 2012-02-14
Post 8/120

Re: Any one thought of this?

I just found more things to suggest for this game:
6fb9bd55da6ebe0970295068bea2c581.png10dec7d7ef5e58b4f368c24e86ffc3f5.png
These based on a picture on Bulbapedia (link), the first being the blurred Ampharos in the picture and the second being my attempt at its restoration. My restoration is closer to the beta than the normal Gold sprite, so it might give a more beta-like feel to the game.
Also, if anyone would be able to dig out this script, here is a quote from Bulbapedia:

There is also an unused event script, complete with text, which would allow a different event for a level 40 Entei, analogous to the birds in Generation I.

Perhaps it could be used instead of having Entei roam, possibly by simply making it exist in the game and removing Entei from the Burned Tower. This might not be possible, but if you use a clean Gold ROM so that the script still exists, it should work, right?
Next, this might be used for seen Pokemon that still haven't been caught, as it seems that that is what it was used for:
150px-1999_Slowking_Pokedex_entry.png
"Now investigating this newly discovered Pokémon." This quote and image are from Bulbapedia. It may give an older look to the game, as the quote is directly from the beta.
Finally, the image on Bulbapedia of the beta titlescreen (Why is everything there blurry?)
150px-1999-GS_beta_title_screen.png
And mine, based on Red and Blue just like the Japanese one, with the correct copyright year (although it says '99 instead of 1999), and edited to appear in English:
d3db4ab55c43c8168952e76d20b7aae5.png
Thanks for reading my suggestions to your idea/project. I really hope this hack is successful!
Edit: Do you plan on making this? If not, may I have permission to (attempt to) create a hack with alpha/beta Pokemon like this? I can understand if you say no, but it would really make a great hack and you haven't been very active lately.
Edit2: If you use them, please give credit to me for the recovery of the Ampharos and titlescreens, as I was the one who restored them.

Last edited by ElectrikeInc (2012-02-16 01:00:19)


I haven't been on this site for a very long time. Sorry about that! >.<
I am probably not going to get very far in the ROM projects that I've started, at least until I get more experience hacking, so I apologize.

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#15 2012-02-17 11:22:27

~Red
Member
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 177/276

Re: Any one thought of this?

I've been trying to get hold of Pokemon 2 Alpha for some time. I want to contact Game Freak Japan but the only way I've found requires you to speak Japanese or it locks you out (it somehow can work out if you use a translator).

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