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’Cause all games were better on the GBC

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#1 2012-02-21 20:33:01

~Red
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Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 178/276

No one has thought of this?

The following image is the map for Capsule Monsters drawn in 1990:

435px-Capsule_Monsters_map.jpg

As you can see, SS Anne is moved below Celadon rather than below Vermillion. But there is no sign of ANY new towns. So the town in Pokemon Red and Green that uses "0B" is most likely nothing and was just there to split the towns from the routes.

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#2 2012-02-22 16:07:10

Torchickens
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Registered: 2011-01-02
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Re: No one has thought of this?

Interesting observation. I've also seen that sketch before, but I never realised that S.S. Anne was below Celadon City. Its amazing what can be seen with small details like that. The two things that made me believe that 0x0B was probably a key area was the fact that there is unused PokéMart data, and an old Hidden Palace thread where Koolboyman said that you can set an unused flag to allow the player to fly to it, but since that was drawn in 1990, I'm now less confident that it really was an unused location.

Also on the subject of Celadon City, it reminds me of the Celadon hotel, I'm really curious what it was there for, with the Capsule Monsters sketch having multiple Pokémon Trainers, as well as the "female protagonist".

http://cdn.bulbagarden.net/media/upload … _Hotel.jpg

The Capsule Monsters designs were presented at show(s?) in Japan, an interview with Satoshi Tajiri on a special episode of Game Center CX and published in books written by Game Freak. Game Freak sometimes also place concept art on their official website. I believe that the above is a scan from Satoshi Tajiri: The Man Who Created Pokémon. Here are a few more of Game Freak's books, though they don't seem to be the only ones and not all of them talk about Pokémon per se. See also Celebi23's page.

I am unsure if Satoshi Tajiri's other book about "TV Game Design" has many scans. I've only found one scan of the first page (pixel art of Pulseman and another character. unfortunately I can no longer find it), but the book has at least one screenshot of when Pokémon Red and Green were still in development. (note the weird SGB border)

000506.jpg

edit: Here's the Red/Green official strategy guide (I think). Note that Ape Inc. are credited instead of Creatures Inc, supporting that Ape Inc. became Creatures Inc. It uses another familiar piece of early artwork also shown on the boxes of the games. There was also an art book illustrated by Ken Sugimori, which features the female protagonist as one of its characters.

Last edited by Torchickens (2012-02-22 17:17:34)

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#3 2012-02-23 18:27:38

~Red
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Registered: 2010-10-16
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Re: No one has thought of this?

Another thing I noticed is that cycling road twists and enters Fuchsia from the north rather than the west. I'm guessing they changed it to make room for the Safari Zone. Also, notice how Saffron has the letter "T" instead of a number, and that in the actual Pokemon Red game Saffron is selected after Indigo Plateau in the Town Map.

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#4 2012-02-24 07:09:09

koolboyman
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Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 49/203

Re: No one has thought of this?

What makes you think that's the S.S. anne?   Other areas like Viridian Forest and Mt Moon don't look anything like that.  No idea why nothing connects to it though.  That thing south of Celadon might have possibly been 0B in my opinion (It's shaped just like the other cities, no idea what "C" means though), that's what I thought as soon as I saw that picture.

Further supporting my theory is that Saffron City also has a letter in it and it's map number is AFTER Indigo Plateau.  All of the city numbers are in the exact same order as their map ID's.  Just add one to each one.

00 = Pallet Town
01 = Viridian City
02 = Pewter City
03 = Cerulean City
04 = Lavender Town
05 = Vermilion City
06 = Celadon City
07 = Fuchsia City
08 = Cinnibar Island
09 = Indigo Plateau

Then after Indigo (10) we have two more spaces for cities.
0A = Saffron City
0B = FREEZE

Saffron City has a letter for some reason and so does the other "city".  Perhaps they served different purposes back then and weren't really cities but important outside areas (much like Indigo Plateau).

Last edited by koolboyman (2012-02-24 07:21:06)

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#5 2012-02-24 08:29:23

~Red
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Registered: 2010-10-16
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Re: No one has thought of this?

koolboyman wrote:

What makes you think that's the S.S. anne?   Other areas like Viridian Forest and Mt Moon don't look anything like that.  No idea why nothing connects to it though.  That thing south of Celadon might have possibly been 0B in my opinion (It's shaped just like the other cities, no idea what "C" means though), that's what I thought as soon as I saw that picture.

Further supporting my theory is that Saffron City also has a letter in it and it's map number is AFTER Indigo Plateau.  All of the city numbers are in the exact same order as their map ID's.  Just add one to each one.

00 = Pallet Town
01 = Viridian City
02 = Pewter City
03 = Cerulean City
04 = Lavender Town
05 = Vermilion City
06 = Celadon City
07 = Fuchsia City
08 = Cinnibar Island
09 = Indigo Plateau

Then after Indigo (10) we have two more spaces for cities.
0A = Saffron City
0B = FREEZE

Saffron City has a letter for some reason and so does the other "city".  Perhaps they served different purposes back then and weren't really cities but important outside areas (much like Indigo Plateau).

It's a long shot, but I'm guessing that Saffron was going to be the rocket base. I also did say above your post that I know Saffron is after Indigo Plateau. Would be interesting if someone could Tweet Satoshi about it.

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#6 2012-02-24 09:53:32

koolboyman
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Registered: 2010-10-16
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Re: No one has thought of this?

~Red wrote:

It's a long shot, but I'm guessing that Saffron was going to be the rocket base. I also did say above your post that I know Saffron is after Indigo Plateau. Would be interesting if someone could Tweet Satoshi about it.

Satoshi has a twitter?  He doesn't appear to be the kind of person who would have one of those.

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#7 2012-02-25 16:02:12

Torchickens
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Registered: 2011-01-02
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Re: No one has thought of this?

koolboyman wrote:

What makes you think that's the S.S. anne?   Other areas like Viridian Forest and Mt Moon don't look anything like that.  No idea why nothing connects to it though.  That thing south of Celadon might have possibly been 0B in my opinion (It's shaped just like the other cities, no idea what "C" means though), that's what I thought as soon as I saw that picture.

I thought the "C" probably stood for Cruise (クルーズ).

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#8 2012-02-25 17:28:18

~Red
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Registered: 2010-10-16
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Re: No one has thought of this?

Torchickens wrote:
koolboyman wrote:

What makes you think that's the S.S. anne?   Other areas like Viridian Forest and Mt Moon don't look anything like that.  No idea why nothing connects to it though.  That thing south of Celadon might have possibly been 0B in my opinion (It's shaped just like the other cities, no idea what "C" means though), that's what I thought as soon as I saw that picture.

I thought the "C" probably stood for Cruise (クルーズ).

That's what I thought too originally. But since Safari Zone isn't marked as a zone on this map, I'm guessing that "C" is actually an extra town.

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#9 2012-02-25 21:15:53

Torchickens
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Registered: 2011-01-02
Post 21/47

Re: No one has thought of this?

~Red wrote:
Torchickens wrote:
koolboyman wrote:

What makes you think that's the S.S. anne?   Other areas like Viridian Forest and Mt Moon don't look anything like that.  No idea why nothing connects to it though.  That thing south of Celadon might have possibly been 0B in my opinion (It's shaped just like the other cities, no idea what "C" means though), that's what I thought as soon as I saw that picture.

I thought the "C" probably stood for Cruise (クルーズ).

That's what I thought too originally. But since Safari Zone isn't marked as a zone on this map, I'm guessing that "C" is actually an extra town.

That's a good point. I support this on the basis that not only places like Viridian Forest and the Safari Zone aren't marked locations but places like Pallet Town, Lavender Town, Cinnabar Island and Indigo Plateau don't even use the large map icons. If Game Freak wanted, they could have made S.S. Anne have a Pokémon Center and/or Gym, or a small island for the S.S. Anne to stop but it probably wouldn't be a "city". Maybe this suggests that "C" was a relatively more notable location or a city.

I wonder if it was related to the unused "Ground rose up somewhere..." text.

Incidentally, does anybody find this interesting? I think it's probably just censorship though, since Kantō is a real Japanese region (which is what Generation I's Kanto is based on).

"Kanto's name was never revealed in the American Generation I games; it was mentioned only once in the respective Japanese versions upon viewing the Town Map at the rival's house. The first mention of its name outside a Japanese context was in Generation II." - Bulbapedia (revision by Unown Lord as of 2007)

GenI_JA_Kanto_Town_Map_Reference.png

Last edited by Torchickens (2012-02-25 21:30:38)

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#10 2013-05-04 21:34:28

80C
Banned
Registered: 2013-03-16
Post 426/1,257

Re: No one has thought of this?

koolboyman wrote:

Saffron City has a letter for some reason and so does the other "city".  Perhaps they served different purposes back then and weren't really cities but important outside areas (much like Indigo Plateau).

Maybe I could solve your doubt.

"T" means "Team", it means that Saffron was meant to be rocket's Final base, and Silph Co. was intended something more like your Brown's Final Dungeon.
In fact, you could have been able to get the master ball only after the pokemon League, probabilly the guards were blocking you until you begin the champion.
the final saffron Silph fight was against the Silph Chief (that's why Nintendo staff removed it, the plot changed).
Saffron City was the last City added at last, infact in the flying order it appears at last.

"C" could mean "Cove" or "Center", if is cove it's because it's a city that is another Rocket cove, I hypotyzed also "Center" because Kanto is the Region of kanto in Japan, near Tokio, and each Kanto city corresponds to a different japanese location (I remember Mt.Silver corresponds to Mt.Fuji) and Saffron is a part or a city very near-by Tokio, Celadon is another part of Tokio (the one with the casinos), vermillion is the Tokio's bay and the New Saffron City indicated with "C" may could have been the Tokio's center (The famous crossroad between Gayen & the other road I don't remember full of shops, it's the center of Tokio).

One day someone should really make a game like the early 1991\1992 beta of pokemon Red\Green.
I know most of the information about it since I found a page on internet containing all these infos including the image and other strange early things, If you wanna know more you're feel free to ask me about, because that page was shut down for reasons I don't know (copyright infringement???).


I left this forum.

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#11 2013-05-04 21:35:36

80C
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Registered: 2013-03-16
Post 427/1,257

Re: No one has thought of this?

*...became the champion..."


I left this forum.

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