Skeetendo

’Cause all games were better on the GBC

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#1 1970-01-01 00:33:30

tekcoR
Member
From: Celadon City
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 24/165

JohtoMap, developed by Lin

JohtoMap - A Pokemon G/S Level Editor

I think that the best G/S level editor to-date (according to Lin) should be listed here.

_____
Finally. I looked every day in his Thread at rhdn and now it's released. Similar design like GoldMap with a few but nice changes like connection data editing, palette editing, etc. I like it!


Cya

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#2 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Luigi-San
Member
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 18/129

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

Screw GoldMap, JohtoMap's where it's at!  :D

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#3 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Masterge77
Member
From: Sandshore Town, Ameria Region
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 80/93
Website

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

It's like AdvancedMap, but for G/S/C!!!!!


[img]http://p.gpxpl.us/qPTY.png[/img]
CLICK MY ROBOT POKEMON ARMY OR ELSE

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#4 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Sawakita
Administrator
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 34/365

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin


It's like AdvancedMap, but for G/S/C!!!!!

It doesn't feel like a positive thing.. if this tool can really do to gold what a-map can do to firered, then prepare to say goodbye to the real good GSC hacking.

In my humble opinion gsc supporters shouldn't be too happy for the release of a new tool.. experience teaches us that almost every time a new "gamespecific tool" comes out, it brings down the quality of the game's hacks.

Not that i really care, since i only hack pokemon blue. I just wanted to point out the paradox..

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#5 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Mateo
Member
From: The Sims 4
Registered: 2009-11-25
Post 302/3,578

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

Sawakita has a good point. The easier you make it, the lower the average intelligence/creative/care of hackers tends to become, due to the larger number of people who can (and do) do it.

That being said however, I will certainly check this editor out, and if it works well then I will definitely put it to use in my hacks.

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#6 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Miksy91
Member
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 150/2,339

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

The editor is useful but I agree with you two as well.
For example in my case, it would be cheating to use the build-in tile editor because I don't know how it really works...and yeah, hackers won't learn how to do these things if everything is already made for them.

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#7 1970-01-01 00:33:30

klavice
New member
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 5/5

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

Personally, this is terrible news.

While I admire Lin's efforts for making this tool. And his Oracles tool, which simplifies Oracles hacking (it's even harder to do than GSC hacking afaik), this tool is going to really make hacks look terrible as said before.

Obviously, nothing compares to good hacks like CBM's Prism, but this is going to give people the idea that it's okay not to learn how to properly hack.

I'm not well versed in the ways of hacking myself, but I can feel your pain.

GoldMap was good because some basic knowledge was required. With tools like Advanced Map, there's no knowledge required.

Eventually, the creator of that scripting tool will finish and port it to RBY and then hacking is "ruined" as you say.

Still, there's no tool to change the slots in the Game Corner and many other things so it'll still look generic if it's done in this.

Although this is good news for people who aren't stupid, just lazy.

You have to admit, a lot of people aren't necessarily stupid because they don't have the time or patience to learn Hex.

Some people with ADD such as myself, just can't stand to sit through several tutorials until they have a good hack coming along.

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#8 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Mateo
Member
From: The Sims 4
Registered: 2009-11-25
Post 304/3,578

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

Well, I've been playing around with it and it seems to work, but my only complaint so far is that it doesn't support extended map blocks, which makes both SaR and the Christmas Hack annoying to edit with this. But it does seem to work well

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#9 1970-01-01 00:33:30

40/703

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

Sawakita has a good point. The easier you make it, the lower the average intelligence/creative/care of hackers tends to become, due to the larger number of people who can (and do) do it.

I can sympathize with this viewpoint, but I disagree with it. Lowering the barrier to entry is not a bad thing.

It's true that a lot of so-called "tools" are just GUI interfaces to change a few bytes. This is a bad thing (a very bad thing!). Programs like this are inextensible, don't allow for repointing or extending the length of data, and promote an extremely inefficient point-and-click way of changing lots of data. (As a digression: if you don't know hex and take nothing else from this post, at least understand that manually pointing and clicking is a terrible way to edit data. What if your ROM corrupts and you have to start over—re-enter everything again? What if you want to move an entry from the middle to the end?)

On the other line is hex editing. Hex editing is infinitely extensible, allows for repointing or extending the length of data, and… promotes an extremely inefficient point-and-type way of changing lots of data.

Obviously, between the two choices above, hex editing is the better solution. But it is still not ideal. It has disadvantages:

  • Repointing is possible but such a pain that it often might as well not be.

  • You have to memorize lots (and lots and lots!) of constants, or constantly swap back and forth between your editor and a list of constants.

  • Inserting new data is almost impossible without stopping to refactor your locations.

The strength of a hex editor is in reverse-engineering, not creating new hacks or games.

What is the real solution? I argue that it's an assembler with a good macro language.

  • Assemblers work with text files, which are easy to edit.

  • You can create mnemonics for constants, so you can write "SQUIRTLE" instead of "B1."

  • You will never have to calculate an address or repoint.

In the long run, complex data like maps or graphics would be split into separate files, which could then be manipulated with custom tools. This is the kind of Pokémon map editor I hope to see someday.

Even with my barely-started assembly rip of Red, I can make useful changes in the fraction of the time that a hex editor (or Visual Basic overlay) would take. Even though its incompleteness prevents the holy grail of inserting data, I could use it to repoint trainer data in seconds, add some Bug Catchers, bump the levels of the trainers in Silph Co., and make Giovanni use Pikachus, all in less than five minutes. How long would that take in a hex editor?


Sorry for the digression from Lin's map editor. (In my defense, it's Windows-only so I can't test it out.) I am happy to see the effort, though.

#10 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Redstar
Moderator
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 49/56

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

God we're elitist, aren't we? XD

I don't think it's too big a deal. A real shame, yes, but I doubt very many people will get into first gen-hacking this way. With Black and White just around the corner I imagine people will be wanting to hack that instead, so this thread will be buried and forgotten soon enough. And all the more power to them if they do. There's still plenty left in the game that's hard to manage.

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#11 1970-01-01 00:33:30

Mateo
Member
From: The Sims 4
Registered: 2009-11-25
Post 305/3,578

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin


Quote:

...snip...

When you put it that way, it is a good thing. I certainly don't go around doing everything in a hex editor, because it is so time consuming, so while I know how I still use editors if they work well, and hex editing when I need to. I also feel like a douche in a way for implying that just because you know how to use a hex editor you are more intelligent or will make better hacks than someone who doesn't.

For example, MeanMrMustard knows more about ASM things than a lot of people, and look at the quality of his hacks.

Also, my brother for example (who is not a member here) is certainly creative, and he can design pokemon and storylines and everythign for a game, but he wouldnt know what he was doing if I handed him a hex editor and a list of offsets.

So I would like to retract my earlier statement, and would like to thank iimarckus for pointing out what he did.

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#12 1970-01-01 00:33:30

ayato
Member
Registered: 2010-10-16
Post 12/14

Re: JohtoMap, developed by Lin

hmmm pallette editting will be useful and I will hate to ALWAYS use the routes and gates, I don't think there is any more warps for my region >>

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